Grunties Revenge PARADOX.

[BanjoArt]

I'm sure just about everyone here has played BK:GR, but I bet they didn't realise the Paradox...

As we see in the game, Banjo goes back in time to the 70's to rescue Kazooie, at that point in time, Gruntilda's Lair is yet to be built and the final battle takes place in her Tower Room.

Let's recap:

REGULAR TIMELINE:

70's: Gruntilda's :Lair is being completed, Banjo Kazooie game yet to be made.

90's: Gruntilda's Lair well completed, Grunty capture Tooty, Enter Banjo Kazooie.

(Paradox Revenge)

Grunty defeated, Goes back to the 70's to stop Banjo and Kazooie's first meeting.

Game ending, Grunty goes back to the ending of BK.

2 Years Later:

Enter Banjo Tooie, Grunty is back with the help of her sisters, Banjo defeats her, we can't wait to play Banjo-Threeie.

The thing is, if we look at the 70's, there is two seperate timelines:

-One has regular Gruntilda, fully fleshed, building her Lair on the outskirts of the mountain.

-The other has mecha Grunty doing exactly the same thing.

Now, it seems like Mecha-Grunty is ruling the land as:

-Breegals are chained in Breegal Beach
-Freezing Furnace is busy making Mecha Grunty Parts.
-Mecha Grunty oil being dumped in Spillers Harbor

So, indefinetly, We see two seperate Gruntys, Mecha Grunty is ruling the land with the seperate levels and battles, and Pre-Banjo Kazooie Grunty is hard at work building the Lair itself.
Would they not happen to bump into eachother?
We see the Paradox loop at point C:

Point A - 70's (ALT TIMELINE: Back to the Future)
Point B - 90's -Defeat of Grunty in Banjo Kazooie
Point C - Back to the Past, henceforth into the future in the end of BK:GR
Point D - Banjo Tooie

By altering the timeline like so, Gruntilda (Mecha) is interfering with Gruntilda's plans in the future.

Another thing is Mumbo knowing exactly who Banjo is on their first meeting in the 70's, whereas Mumbo really meets Banjo in the 90's, not the 70's, so how does he know his name?

Well, that's another story.

GREAT SCOT!

[Fox McBanjo]

Excellent analysis, BA. ^_^

[wkw427]

Think of it this way. The lair doesn't change at all during GR. Perhaps the 70's Grutny was away?

[Articerile]

Time is a big ball of timey-wimey...stuff.

Yeah.

Also, this is heavy. GREAT SCOTT.

Can the Hag 1 go at 88 miles an hour?

All I can see is that it causes an alternate timeline paradox, and when it's fixed everything returns to normal and it was as if Mecha Grunty hadn't...well been there.

[wkw427]

Time is a big ball of timey-wimey...stuff.
Actually, time is amde up of nothing. The only way time can change is if you are travleing near the speed of light or are enar the event horizon of a black hole. That is the only way time can change. Otherwise it is reletive to every area of the universe.

Picture it like this. Everything, matter, is mashed potatos on a plate. The plate is time. Now, picture a black hole as a potato mountain. The higher on the mountain, the slower time goes because you aren't reletive to the rest of the mashed potatos. Now if you were going 99.999% the speed of light, picture yourself on something like a monorail above the rest of the potatos. Time seems like it ispassing at normal speed for you, however it is fact going VERY slowly. From th eperspective of someone on the lower potatos, time would be going really slow for you. However if you wer eon the monorail, you would be going normal and everything else would be going fast.


Get it? :)

[P.o.t.O]

Also, there's the possibility of a predestination paradox.

[wkw427]

Also, there's the possibility of a predestination paradox.
oh? enlighten me.

[P.o.t.O]

Wait, no...there's no chance of any sort of predestination paradox...it's just a bad game. Never mind.

[wkw427]

Time travel makes everything so.. weird and hard to understand. That is why it is "theoretically" impossible.

[P.o.t.O]

If done properly, time travel is a great concept...but this game obviously didn't pay attention to their own story. Oh well.

Time travel doesn't always have to be hard to understand, mind you.

[Madous]

After reading this thread...

-head asplodes-

[wkw427]

Time travel doesn't always have to be hard to understand, mind you.

It isn't jhard to understand. Just the fact that ANYTHING and EVERYTHING you do will result in a change in the future.

[DeLMrcs]

After reading this thread...

-head asplodes-
You just summed it up for me o-O

[yamibakuragod]

It's because while you were distracted with the paradox, she ran around sealing up the eggs and the key, to try keep you from totally pwnzing her in the future with them.

[wkw427]

Paradoxes are so confuseing because in theory, the human mind can't compprehend the impossible.

[DekuScrubby]

I hate it how on most shopping websites, the game is stated to be an "alternate to Banjo-Tooie".

[Kain Horward]

This is crazy. It's a video game, people. Obviously, when Rare made Banjo-Tooie, they didn't know that they were going to make GR, and they just wanted to have a neat story for it, not caring about continuity. Maybe they should have just set GR in an alternate timeline like they were originally going to.

[BanjoArt]

Mulling it over, I've thought of an even greater Paradox!

Think about this:

Let's say Gruntilda won.
She captures Kazooie, Banjo fails to defeat her, and Gruntilda has successfully stopped Banjo and Kazooie's first meeting.

What would happen then?

Well, Gruntilda wouldn't be defeated by Banjo and Kazooie in the first game, she wouldn't fall off her tower, and she wouldn't be trapped under a rock.
Therefore, she wouldn't have a Mecha Grunty suit, wouldn't capture Kazooie, wouldn't go back in time, and wouldn't stop their first meeting.
Think about that one.
This is heavy.

[wkw427]

Mulling it over, I've thought of an even greater Paradox!

Think about this:

Let's say Gruntilda won.
She captures Kazooie, Banjo fails to defeat her, and Gruntilda has successfully stopped Banjo and Kazooie's first meeting.

What would happen then?

Well, Gruntilda wouldn't be defeated by Banjo and Kazooie in the first game, she wouldn't fall off her tower, and she wouldn't be trapped under a rock.
Therefore, she wouldn't have a Mecha Grunty suit, wouldn't capture Kazooie, wouldn't go back in time, and wouldn't stop their first meeting.
Think about that one.
This is heavy.


Good try. The reallity where Mec Grunty (G1 lets say) was thrown off of the tower existed, however when G1 went back in time, the time line split into an alternate reality. That reality conteined G1 as well as G2. Both Gruntyd would exist at the same time.

Since G1 prevented her reality from happening, she would not just dissapeer She would exist in another reality. Eventually fading in the most painful way.

See Back to the Future and Stargate SG1 for my refrences.

[Unexpected]

Mulling it over, I've thought of an even greater Paradox!

Think about this:

Let's say Gruntilda won.
She captures Kazooie, Banjo fails to defeat her, and Gruntilda has successfully stopped Banjo and Kazooie's first meeting.

What would happen then?

Well, Gruntilda wouldn't be defeated by Banjo and Kazooie in the first game, she wouldn't fall off her tower, and she wouldn't be trapped under a rock.
Therefore, she wouldn't have a Mecha Grunty suit, wouldn't capture Kazooie, wouldn't go back in time, and wouldn't stop their first meeting.
Think about that one.
This is heavy.

It's similar to the grandfather paradox (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grandfather_paradox)

[BanjoArt]

Nice theory Whyme, but if there are indeed 2 Gruntilda's than this "Split Timeline" theory would still exsist.

TimeLine A: Gruntilda is trapped under a rock, her sisters save her, Enter Banjo Tooie.

TimeLine B: Gruntilda is trapped under a rock, she gets in the Mecha Grunty suit, Enter BK:GR.

This would make sense that only TimeLine B is affected, therefore TimeLine A With Banjo Kazooie and Banjo Tooie would be unharmed.

BUT, There is one thing you are forgetting:

At the end of Gruntys Revenge, Gruntilda tells Klungo to call her sisters, thus entering Banjo Tooie, had it not been for this incident, the timelines would not collide, thus forming the Grandfather Paradox.

Since we are all fans of the Banjo franchise however, you may chose to believe that Gruntys Revenge:

A.) Took place between Banjo Kazooie and Banjo Tooie

OR

B.) Is taking place in the alternate reality of the universe.

Choose.

[wkw427]

What we assume is that all the time in the past during GR, it effected NOTHING.

Think this.

Grunty went back in time, 5 mins later she reappeared. It could happen

[BanjoArt]

Not if one alters the past, such as Gruntys Grandfather Paradox.

[Tanjo]

I've always wondered where past-grunty was. It would've been interesting if she teamed up with mecha grunty. And had an afro.

The reason 70's mumbo knew banjo and kazooie were coming was because 1999 mumbo sent a message back to 70's mumbo, 70's mumbo confirms this.

[BanjoArt]

So, if you got a letter right now, from your future self, saying "Tom Johnson is coming" Would you say "Oh, right I know who Tom Johnson is! I've never met him, or seen him before, but I know everything about him..."

[Tanjo]

I assume the message contained more details.

[BanjoArt]

Would you not feel just a bit confused?

[Tanjo]

No, because I just said that the message from mumbo probably contained more information than "Bear and bird coming.".