Please, fellow LOZ fans...

[Mandolin]

Teach me to love Majora's Mask as much as you do. There's no way in hell you'll convince me that it's a better game (or even as good) as Ocarina of Time, but I want to experience the nuances and subtleties that make you hold it so dear. What are the main things I have to experience in order to really understand the game, assuming I haven't found them (and been underwhelmed by them) already? What are the awesome non-mandatory secrets, sidequests, and mini-games you claim the game has that I haven't seen? How, why, and at what points in the game does its epicness suprass that of Ocarina? I gotta know, know, know.

So go, go go.

Note: I have all the masks. You don't have to tutor me on that.

Note 2.0: Navi > Tatl. This is unquestionable.

OK, now go.

[DevilBanjo]

I would love it so much if it didn't have a time limit. Maybe I should give it another shot since it's been years since I tried it, but I don't like pressure.

I love the game for it's interesting world and characters though.

[Twi]

I hope you don't mind hefty reading... (http://www.zeldauniverse.net/articles/the-legend/the-message-of-majoras-mask/).

I'm aware that the above is only a bunch of theories, but it really has a "Wow" factor when you think about it.

One of the reasons I love Majora's Mask is because it's storyline and character development is so much deeper than Ocarina of Time, and according to interviews and whatnot, it's what they had in mind when developing it.

It just provides a much stronger message than OOT's: "Save the Princess, Save the World, woo." thing.

Try looking beyond the gameplay.

In short: OOT is fun as a game, MM is superior in the story department, which ultimately makes for a better game for me at least.

[DevilBanjo]

I hope you don't mind hefty reading... (http://www.zeldauniverse.net/articles/the-legend/the-message-of-majoras-mask/).

I'm aware that the above is only a bunch of theories, but it really has a "Wow" factor when you think about it.

One of the reasons I love Majora's Mask is because it's storyline and character development is so much deeper than Ocarina of Time, and according to interviews and whatnot, it's what they had in mind when developing it.

It just provides a much stronger message than OOT's: "Save the Princess, Save the World, woo." thing.

Try looking beyond the gameplay.

In short: OOT is fun as a game, MM is superior in the story department, which ultimately makes for a better game for me at least.

I remember reading that, I think it may be true. Shows how deep the background is.

I also go to that site sometimes, their theories are usually rather over-analyzed.

But the one about MM that twi linked, it's a good read.

[Unexpected]

I don't get why people complain about the time limit so much, it never bothered me. I've only ever ran out of time ONE time, in the Great Bay Temple. I'm currently in the Ikana Castle.

[Doorstop]

The 3 Day system is one of the most unique ways to play a game I've ever seen. Wherever you are in the world, you can think to all the people you've seen and helped, and most have a cycle that they're doing at that very moment. While you're off at Snowhead, the Postman is doing his rounds at 3 am, and the Deku Princess is currently still kidnapped, and the moon will fall in these three days.

The sidequests are great, and the fact that everyone does the same thing at the same times really makes it feel like their normal lives in a 3 Day period. Most don't just sit and talk to you like in Ocarina. Clock Town, and it's surrounding areas have different events happening depending if you're there, or if your helping them out.

The Dungeons are good, even if there's less than OoT and maybe not as good. You can't call them bad. But it's the surrounding areas, and the stories they tell that are gold. The dark theme of the game is omnipresent, with the moon lurking right above, staring you down, getting closer everyday.

Ocarina of Time may have a longer main game, but I think the livlier world trumps it indefinately. It's unique unlike some Zeldas.

This came at a good time, I'm just replaying it. :P I've been comparing it to Ocarina alot, and these are some things that stood out and I noticed.

[Dylan Yoshi]

Look at the game as a piece of literature. Analyze it and its characters. The Message of Majora's Mask is a good example, although, despite how accurate that theory is (in my opinion), I wouldn't expect anyone to analyze it to that extent. A lesser example would be about Anju's mother. Tortus, her husband, left her long ago, and she had to go through the misery of Anju's seemingly senile grandmother bringing up Tortus's name every day for the rest of their lives. As such, she grows a hatred for Kafei when he disappears.

I don't expect you to end up liking it more than OOT, I've just been bothered by the fact that you never seemed to appreciate the game for what it is. Sorry if there's been a misconception.

[DevilBanjo]

I don't get why people complain about the time limit so much, it never bothered me. I've only ever ran out of time ONE time, in the Great Bay Temple. I'm currently in the Ikana Castle.

Well, I just suck. Hahaha.

[Siege]

I hate to hijack this thread, but where is the Swamp spider house? All I'm missing is the Mask of Truth...

[BK#1Fan]

It's the only Zelda game that has a challenge and a story that isn't "z0mg gananderf st0p him!"

[Mandolin]

OK, first off, I'm sorry if I actually pissed anyone off in my last few days of OOT-mongering.

I hope you don't mind hefty reading... (http://www.zeldauniverse.net/articles/the-legend/the-message-of-majoras-mask/).

Look at the game as a piece of literature. Analyze it and its characters. The Message of Majora's Mask is a good example, although, despite how accurate that theory is (in my opinion), I wouldn't expect anyone to analyze it to that extent. A lesser example would be about Anju's mother. Tortus, her husband, left her long ago, and she had to go through the misery of Anju's seemingly senile grandmother bringing up Tortus's name every day for the rest of their lives. As such, she grows a hatred for Kafei when he disappears.

I don't expect you to end up liking it more than OOT, I've just been bothered by the fact that you never seemed to appreciate the game for what it is. Sorry if there's been a misconception.

I've read that, and I think it's very well thought-out. I read the one about the "larger message" of the series, too, and ZU delivered. I definitely see how Majora's Mask is a work used to convey the narrative possibilities offered by video games and only video games in the same sense that Watchmen was designed to show the possibilities offered by comics and only comics, and in that regard it's a smashing success. But maybe I liked the traditional structure of video games, and the traditional structure of Zelda, even, too much as it already was for me to feel comfortable with such a radical experiment. However, by no means consider this an end to the discussion. I'm very interesting in finding out what it is that makes this one game, in my opinion subpar compared to its series peers, resonate so much with so many gamers.

It's the only Zelda game that has a challenge and a story that isn't "z0mg gananderf st0p him!"

But what's wrong with "z0mg ganenderf st0p him!", exactly? I don't know whether I'm in the minority here, and this may be my innate boyishness talking, but although I like to think my taste in fiction is not unsophisticated, I really like straightforward "undoubtedly good guy confronts undoubtedly bad guy and ultimately succeeds" stories. I like improbable odds, simpler characters, and broader motivations. Not exclusively, but that sort of thing does resonate with me. They're pulpy, boyish, innocent things; it doesn't have to matter why the Joker / Goldfinger / Bowser is evil, all that matters is that Batman / James Bond / Mario is good and on the way to kick his ass. And that's how Zelda was introduced to me, and the form in which I grew to love it; when Majora's Mask showed up and turned out to be a whole other kettle of fish, I felt jarred. Maybe, if I'd been introduced to Zelda later rather than sooner, I may have cared for it more.

I'm sure I would love this game if it came under it's own banner, not the LOZ banner.

Edit: Oh, and mebecj, the Swamp Spider house is near the stone you pass on your first venture through Woodfall where Kaepora Gaebora teaches you the Song of Soaring. You can reach it by climbing all the way up there as a Deku Scrub, then jumping down from the ledge and bouncing on the water until you reach it. You can also bounce through the whole path the riverboat takes until you get there. This is from memory, though; you may want to ask someone who's played through the game more recently.

[BK#1Fan]

But what's wrong with "z0mg ganenderf st0p him!", exactly? I don't know whether I'm in the minority here, and this may be my innate boyishness talking, but although I like to think my taste in fiction is not unsophisticated, I really like straightforward "undoubtedly good guy confronts undoubtedly bad guy and ultimately succeeds" stories. I like improbable odds, simpler characters, and broader motivations. Not exclusively, but that sort of thing does resonate with me. They're pulpy, boyish, innocent things; it doesn't have to matter why the Joker / Goldfinger / Bowser is evil, all that matters is that Batman / James Bond / Mario is good and on the way to kick his ass. And that's how Zelda was introduced to me, and the form in which I grew to love it; when Majora's Mask showed up and turned out to be a whole other kettle of fish, I felt jarred. Maybe, if I'd been introduced to Zelda later rather than sooner, I may have cared for it more.

Sounds like nostalgia to me. You don't want Zelda to ever change, which might be way you don't like Majora's Mask in the first place, since it's pretty different from the rest.

Also, it's not like Majora's Mask's story was all that complicated. It was still basically good vs. evil, except evil was a mask.

[sam.26]

I suck at explaining why one game is better then another, but you should ask the IGN Zelda boards. They practically worship MM.

[Dylan Yoshi]

OK, first off, I'm sorry if I actually pissed anyone off in my last few days of OOT-mongering.





I've read that, and I think it's very well thought-out. I read the one about the "larger message" of the series, too, and ZU delivered. I definitely see how Majora's Mask is a work used to convey the narrative possibilities offered by video games and only video games in the same sense that Watchmen was designed to show the possibilities offered by comics and only comics, and in that regard it's a smashing success. But maybe I liked the traditional structure of video games, and the traditional structure of Zelda, even, too much as it already was for me to feel comfortable with such a radical experiment. However, by no means consider this an end to the discussion. I'm very interesting in finding out what it is that makes this one game, in my opinion subpar compared to its series peers, resonate so much with so many gamers.

That's the thing. Zelda is one of those series that you can do pretty much ANYTHING to and it'll still be good. Look at Batman, for example. The TV show from the 60's has a far different feel to it than much of what the other series are like. But it's still Batman, and it still works. They all have a superhero dressed in black, driving a batmobile, etc. Just as every Zelda game's main character wears green tights and has a sword. MM took a different turn and it certainly proved to be great.

But what's wrong with "z0mg ganenderf st0p him!", exactly? I don't know whether I'm in the minority here, and this may be my innate boyishness talking, but although I like to think my taste in fiction is not unsophisticated, I really like straightforward "undoubtedly good guy confronts undoubtedly bad guy and ultimately succeeds" stories. I like improbable odds, simpler characters, and broader motivations. Not exclusively, but that sort of thing does resonate with me. They're pulpy, boyish, innocent things; it doesn't have to matter why the Joker / Goldfinger / Bowser is evil, all that matters is that Batman / James Bond / Mario is good and on the way to kick his ass. And that's how Zelda was introduced to me, and the form in which I grew to love it; when Majora's Mask showed up and turned out to be a whole other kettle of fish, I felt jarred. Maybe, if I'd been introduced to Zelda later rather than sooner, I may have cared for it more.

There isn't anything wrong with "z0mg ganenderf st0p him!" But what's wrong with going the extra mile? Doing so worked and it worked well.

I'm sure I would love this game if it came under it's own banner, not the LOZ banner.

Then don't look at it in the same way as you do OOT. Look at it in a different light.

Edit: Oh, and mebecj, the Swamp Spider house is near the stone you pass on your first venture through Woodfall where Kaepora Gaebora teaches you the Song of Soaring. You can reach it by climbing all the way up there as a Deku Scrub, then jumping down from the ledge and bouncing on the water until you reach it. You can also bounce through the whole path the riverboat takes until you get there. This is from memory, though; you may want to ask someone who's played through the game more recently.

If you're lazy like me, you just roll through the poison swamp as Goron Link because he's tall enough to not drown in it. :p

[Siege]

If you're lazy like me, you just roll through the poison swamp as Goron Link because he's tall enough to not drown in it. :p

And is it like the ocean one where I've gotta beat it on day 1?

[Dylan Yoshi]

And is it like the ocean one where I've gotta beat it on day 1?

Um, I don't think so? I beat them both on Day 1 without going on to Day 2, so if it gets sealed off, I wouldn't know... Although I'm sure I've entered them after Day 1 before.

Edit: When I say roll to it as Goron, I mean go past the Bigocto to the right of the pictograph house at the entrance to the Swamp. Kill it with Zora's fins, then roll through with Goron, and you should come across the entrance to the Swamp Spider House fairly quickly, it's right before the Deku Palace. But you have to turn back into normal or Deku Link to climb onto its platform, due to a glitch in the game that keeps Zora and Goron from climbing out of the swamp's water. If you're fast, you won't waste many hearts in the poison.

[Kahuna360]

ITS AMAZING.
Just like every other Zelda games.

Also, it's a direct sequel to the Ocarina of Time.
And at the end of the credits, you learn something really nice,
A Link to the Past, if you will.

[Avarice]

ITS AMAZING.
Just like every other Zelda games.

Also, it's a direct sequel to the Ocarina of Time.
And at the end of the credits, you learn something really nice,
A Link to the Past, if you will.

It's been a few years since I last played MM, so mind explaining?

[Ice Lightning]

Long long long long long long long post warning ahead. tl;dr MM is brilliant.

First off Navi was an annoying shit, whereas Tatl actually had personality. Point number 1, near enough every single character had their own personality in this game. You could follow people around all day if you wanted to and no one would warp anywhere, teleport anywhere aside from sometimes at the end/start of days and you could follow all the main NPC's going about their daily life. You could talk to any of them on different days and you could sense their growing fear as the days went on. They had developing personalities through the three days.

As Dylan Yoshi said you can see their personalities in examples like that, of Anju's grandmother's dislike of Kafei. A simple character who doesn't have much importance in the game but still has this large back story.

You could play as a Deku Scrub, Goron and Zora which is just awesome in itself.
You have all the masks so you must have gone through the Anju/Kafei sidequest, and how moving that is at the end and through it all. How all the stories interlink like how Anju/Kafei's story links with Sakon who is linked with the old grandmother he robs who is liked with Curiosity shop and I think then gets linked back to Kafei. The entire game is made of this, individual stories of each character in this world under threat. Instead of focussing just on the bigger issue at hand during the end of the world we're focussing on the individuals perspective of it and each person's different response to it.

And more stories in the game as well as Anju's, the Gorman troupe brothers or the lone Gorman brother in the milk bar and his story of the Circus Leader's Mask. The music box man has his own story of getting the Breman mask of how he was kicked out of the animal troupe. Again unimportant character has their own backstory.

How it's the darkest Zelda game there has been and how everything behind the scenes is basically a really evil plot. Each of the three transforming masks contains the soul of a person who has just recently died. The Zora dies and you get his mask, and you don't just look like him but you become that Zora, physically you are that Zora, and to everyone else they think you are him. The Goron as well for example, he was warrior and leader that died and you took his soul in the form of a mask. The entire city was upset as they thought he died, the crying Goron Elder's son especially, but then you appear as him and all is well as they think he's alive, the son even stops crying. Then all of a sudden after all this Link leaves and Darmani the Goron will leave with him never to be seen again. Imagine if a relative of yours died, then they showed up again for a day and you thought they were back, then suddenly they disappear again. It's a harsh plot.

(Explanation for Avarice coming up) But then you get the Zora mask from Mikau, Goron mask from Darmani, where does the Deku Mask come from? Each of the other masks is inhabited by the soul of a recently deceased person. As you start the game you walk past a tree that Tatl points out resembles a tormented Deku child. As you get to the Deku Palace the Butler says you remind him of his son who has disappeared. After the credits just as everyone has been celebrating you see a short scene of in the cave you first entered through, the Deku Butler is crying next to this tree. The tree was his son, the Skull Kid murdered the Deku Child in order to turn you into him, and you, unknowingly go and spend time with his father. It's a pretty twisted storyline especially for a Zelda game.

Again this is further pointed out when you play the song Elergy of Empiness. It creates a model of the soul that inhabits the mask when played, these souls looks almost identical to the deceased person complete with wounds seeing as the Goron has a big gash across his stomach. It also means the hollowed out version of Link is him once dead, but there's a lot more here to do with death in the game.

Onto another section is about Romani Ranch. Romani is the small girl the same age as Link who's usually filled with happiness and really excitable. At one point in the game aliens visit Romani Ranch and abduct the cows which you have to stop (in one of the weirder sections of the game). If you achieve this well done the town gets its supply of milk. If not the the town gets no milk, Romani who was sat in the barn looking after the cows while you defended the land gets abducted with all the cows as you fail. The next day Cremia is upset seeing as her sister and all her cows have gone, and then later all the cows and her sister are back again. Only this time Cremia points out how Romani acts differently. If you talk to her all you will get as a response is "...", and whereas before she was lively and running about everywhere she is standing still, with a blank expression on her face making no acknowledgement of anything at all. Although it's just a theory these signs all point to a lobotomy on the girl, another one of the darkest things in the game which I only found out a couple weeks ago actually. The game involves a lobotomy or something very close to it on a 10 year old girl.

The moon itself is just freaky. As it crashes down it talks to you saying "I will consume... I will consume everything". Inside the moon can be really freaky though, it's a large grass field with a tree in the middle, the last thing you were expecting. There are children playing around the outside all with a mask of one of the bosses on, all mention they'd like to become a mask salesman one day just to throw in some more mystery about him if he wasn't odd enough already (and I probably could right a whole paragraph on him yes, but I won't). A child wearing Majora's Mask is sitting in the middle lonely as he wants to play. And that's essentially all Majora's mask wants to do, it wants to play. It causes three days of terror simply because it is lonely and wants to play, mirroring the Skull Kid's story. He turns Link into a Deku instead of killing him because it's funny. He waits until Link gets the Fierce Deity Mask because it's a similar match for Majora and someone he can play with. During the fight he'll dance all over the place because he's just having fun, not fighting properly (although then the manga gives it more meaning that I won't go into).

Finally Fierce Deity himself is left unexplained which is really annoying because I want so much to know more but it does leave it open to theorising about him. The Fierce Deity is said to be more evil than Majora himself, and to cause even more destruction. Link is almost corrupted himself by the mask just like Skull Kid was corrupted by Majora's Mask, but the backstories of Majora and Fierce Deity are left open. His name literally means Ferocious God, and that's what Anju call's him in the manga, or when called Oni Link in Japan that'll translate as Demon Link.

The three day system itself was brilliant. It's a complete change for the Zelda series, instead of focussing on the main story it asks you questions instead. It's not a "I want to take over Hyrule plot" but more than that and to be honest it's not even clear what the motivation is. Skull Kid is lonely and wants to play, so does Majora, they take their anger out on the land. It was just a completely new direction for the series and it did it perfectly in my opinion.

In case you never noticed Majora's Mask is my favourite game, absolutely love it. Although surprisingly as much as I love MM theories I've never read that link Twi posted. Someday I'll get round to it.

[Unexpected]

post

Nice read.
Just one question... what's lobotomy? :confused:

[MetalHeroOfTime]

Nice read.
Just one question... what's lobotomy? :confused:

Some questions are better left unanswered (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lobotomy)

[Kaiser]

(Explanation for Avarice coming up) But then you get the Zora mask from Mikau, Goron mask from Darmani, where does the Deku Mask come from? Each of the other masks is inhabited by the soul of a recently deceased person. As you start the game you walk past a tree that Tatl points out resembles a tormented Deku child. As you get to the Deku Palace the Butler says you remind him of his son who has disappeared. After the credits just as everyone has been celebrating you see a short scene of in the cave you first entered through, the Deku Butler is crying next to this tree. The tree was his son, the Skull Kid murdered the Deku Child in order to turn you into him, and you, unknowingly go and spend time with his father. It's a pretty twisted storyline especially for a Zelda game.


brb, shitting bricks.

[Mandolin]

Sounds like nostalgia to me. You don't want Zelda to ever change, which might be way you don't like Majora's Mask in the first place, since it's pretty different from the rest.

That isn't true. First of all, something tells me you walked into the thread predisposed to accuse me of nostalgia, because all I was saying is that I didn't mind that Ocarina had a straightforward story structure and that, by itself, that didn't mean the story was superior or inferior to a more compled one in my opinion. I don't know how you translated that into nostalgia. And if I didn't want Zelda to ever change, why is The Wind Waker my #2 Zelda game? That one's about as radical a departure from the usual mold as Majora's Mask (what with its genre-savvy characters, cartoon art style, funky items, its seafaring / piracy theme, and the fact that Link is an ordinary kid who stumbles randomly into the adventure without being "the chosen one of the goddesses" or somesuch) and yet I like it much more.

Also, it's not like Majora's Mask's story was all that complicated. It was still basically good vs. evil, except evil was a mask.

That's a gross oversimplification. Majora's Mask is unusually morally-ambiguous for a Zelda game.

There isn't anything wrong with "z0mg ganenderf st0p him!" But what's wrong with going the extra mile? Doing so worked and it worked well.

That's another thing. Why is it "going the extra mile"? It seems to me that you think a more complicated story is fundamentally superior to one that's more straightforward. Ocarina of Time was simpler in its storytelling devices, but they were used properly and the effect was stupendous. Majora's Mask did something different; not better and not worse, just different, it may have worked from a storytelling perspective and there's nothing wrong with that, but it really did away with Zelda's sacret "explore a wide-open world with no time restrictions" tenet, often mentioned by Miyamoto. I often think I'd probably like the story more if it were a book, but if it were it'd have to be the mother of all doorstoppers. Majora's Mask definitely cannot work as anything other than a game, and I'd be just fine with that if it weren't a Zelda game.

Then don't look at it in the same way as you do OOT. Look at it in a different light.
How so? (I'm not being a jerk, that's a legitimate question)

First off Navi was an annoying shit, whereas Tatl actually had personality.

I'll never, ever understand why people didn't like Navi. She didn't pester you nearly as much as people said she did, and she had a nice, nurturing, sisterly personality. Tatl, on the other hand, may not have reminded you where you needed to go as often as Navi did, but was a little bitch. Always talking down to Link and making you feel like a douchebag if you asked her to identify an enemy's weak point. I really have no strong feelings about either character, but I liked Navi's cool professionalism more than Tatl's hotheadedness. And in any case, Midna and the King of Red Lions are both far cooler companions to Link.

Can't say anymore or the text will get too long, but I am reading your comments.

[Teto]

I think you love it as much as any of us, Mandolin. Your love for Ocarina of Time is just far superior to anybody's and you don't understand what we mean by 'love', as you envision it as the Godly feeling you feel toward Ocarina of Time. In truth, your definition of 'like' is our definition of 'love'.

Teach me to love, Mandolin.


((1337th post))

[Mandolin]

I think you love it as much as any of us, Mandolin. Your love for Ocarina of Time is just far superior to anybody's and you don't understand what we mean by 'love', as you envision it as the Godly feeling you feel toward Ocarina of Time. In truth, your definition of 'like' is our definition of 'love'.

Teach me to love, Mandolin.


((1337th post))

...

......

.........

............I don't quite know how to react to that.

[DekuScrubby]

There are no real time restrictions in MM.

[Oz the Gay and Powerful]

DekuScrubby is right. What's there is there to give the game a heavy atmosphere that no other Zelda game has contained since. Also, the final hour. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z4ni1drobVk)

[Mandolin]

There are no real time restrictions in MM.

Explain. I distinctly remember a three-day limit.

[xxjoesusxx]

Navi is annoying as shit, Tatl is way less annoying.

[Adam]

Explain. I distinctly remember a three-day limit.

You can rewind whenever you want and there's a song that can slow time. Unless you just SUCK at Zelda, there's really no problem with the "time limit". Also, if you want to love MM. Just read Ice's post.

[Oz the Gay and Powerful]

Explain. I distinctly remember a three-day limit.

If you slow down time it gives like, at least 3 hours. More than enough time to complete a story-centric goal. Then you rewind time and go and look for shit like in every other Zelda game. And if you need more time than that, you need to get outside more. Also, Termina isn't as small as you claim. The four areas surrounding it have a lot to them. In fact, Hyrule Field in OoT has less stuff in it than Termina field. Not to mention big areas of nothing.

And when you rewind time, the impact isn't as big as it seems.

[Mandolin]

Navi is annoying as shit, Tatl is way less annoying.

I couldn't disagree more.

[Teto]

Read this (http://alexwylieblog.wordpress.com/2009/07/27/majoras-mask-is-darker-than-you-think/). It might make you understand some of the subtleties that make it so great.

And it's from our very own Troll Clowns, no less. o:


Also, I know you'll probably hate me for this, but I'm going to post the Zelda games I've played in order of preference.

1. Wind Waker
2. Majora's Mask
3. Twilight Princess
4. Ocarina of Time
5. Phantom Hourglass

But I don't have the nostalgia side of it; I never had a Nintendo 64. And just look at what happened to me.

Gay.

[BK#1Fan]

Okay this thread is stupid.

Obviously no one is going to change your opinion and you made this thread knowing that.

Other than having a pointless opinion-based argument, what's the point of this?

[Dylan Yoshi]

How so? (I'm not being a jerk, that's a legitimate question)
You're trying to look at it as a traditional Zelda game. You have to accept that it isn't and look at it as something totally new and different.

[Kaiser]

I'll never, ever understand why people didn't like Navi. She didn't pester you nearly as much as people said she did, and she had a nice, nurturing, sisterly personality. Tatl, on the other hand, may not have reminded you where you needed to go as often as Navi did, but was a little bitch. Always talking down to Link and making you feel like a douchebag if you asked her to identify an enemy's weak point. I really have no strong feelings about either character, but I liked Navi's cool professionalism more than Tatl's hotheadedness. And in any case, Midna and the King of Red Lions are both far cooler companions to Link.



Hell, even the mayor hates Navi with a burning passion. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FTVkOyp1vxI)

[.:Alex:.]

Tatl's pleasant chime was much more soothing to the ears than Navi's annoying "Hey! Look! Listen! Watch out!" That right there is the best single decision they've ever made with this series. She was a bit of a bitch though, but eh.

[Jacky Durand]

Thank you Ice Lightning -
You just made me change opinion about the game. Especially the eye-opener with the Decu-kid's background.

But still the main quest has some frustrating moments, like- why am I supposed to go to the sea bottom and the pirate's fortress multible times to get some freakin' eggs!?

[Avarice]

Okay, I get you Ice. I thought you were talking about something else for a minute.

[xxjoesusxx]

I couldn't disagree more.

I seem to remember Navi always screeching annoying high pitched words, all the time, I don't remember Tatl doing that. Of course it's been years since I played the game.

[StarFox]

I seem to remember Navi always screeching annoying high pitched words, all the time, I don't remember Tatl doing that. Of course it's been years since I played the game.Tatl obviously didn't do it, of course. Navi was just a pain... Trying to walk around, and it's annoying voice pissed me off.

I remember trying to fight some tektites, and she just kept going "HEY!" glowing green, and flying towards a rock. XD

[Twi]

I never found Navi annoying, just a bit plain and uninteresting. :/

Tatl had some legitimate character development that can be seen easily after defeating Odolwa in Woodfall Temple.

[.:Alex:.]

Don't forget the ending too. When she hesitates before saying thanks in an "I don't want anyone else to hear me be nice" way.

[Mandolin]

I seem to remember Navi always screeching annoying high pitched words, all the time, I don't remember Tatl doing that. Of course it's been years since I played the game.

Navi did say things like "Look!", "Listen!" and "Watch out!" every now and again, but not nearly as much as people say. The one that happened the most was the second one, if you had gone a long time without following the main quest, and the other two only happened if you asked her about either objects or enemies. At all times, you were totally free to ignore her (she only actually said the word if you pressed the button to talk to her).

Midna totally owns both fairies because she can tell you what you're supposed to be doing at any time and only if you ask her (not to mention that she has a very entertaining personality, fun and snarky without being rude and bitchy like Tatl), and the King of Red Lions could have been equally awesome if you could summon his services using Tetra's gossip stone more frequently. Plus, I always imagine him talking in Sean Connery's voice.

Read this (http://alexwylieblog.wordpress.com/2009/07/27/majoras-mask-is-darker-than-you-think/). It might make you understand some of the subtleties that make it so great.

And it's from our very own Troll Clowns, no less. o:

...damn, that's a good blog post. In fact, I'm not afraid to say that it helped me see the game in a new light. There's a lot of things up there I hadn't seen or heard about in the game; I didn't know there was a secret room in the swordman's school, for instance (where?), or that "live" ReDeads will crouch down to eat one that's been defeated. I still find that the game has many fundamental flaws, but Troll's perspective certainly shined a light on what this game means to so many people. There are some things I disagree with, though; I think the face of the moon kind of ruins the effect (it looks too goofy), I think the Ikana soliders aren't children so much as an extinct race of people, and I don't see the Happy Mask Salesman as evil. He certainly didn't kill Mario... if he did, what does the Elvis mask on his backpack say?

[Adam]

You said you couldn't disagree more about Navi at Tatl. What was annoying about Tatl?

[Oz the Gay and Powerful]

Okay this thread is stupid.

Obviously no one is going to change your opinion and you made this thread knowing that.

Other than having a pointless opinion-based argument, what's the point of this?

Mandolin wants to "fit in".

[Mandolin]

You said you couldn't disagree more about Navi at Tatl. What was annoying about Tatl?

She had an obnoxious attitude. I'd rather hang out with Navi than with Tatl, for instance.

And I'd much rather hang out with the King of Red Lions, and much much more with Midna.

Mandolin wants to "fit in".

No, I just wanted to understand the appeal of the game.

BK#1Fan just can't tolerate other people's opinions, I see.

[BK#1Fan]

BK#1Fan just can't tolerate other people's opinions, I see.

Yep, you're right.

Majora's Mask > Ocarina of Time and anyone who thinks otherwise is an idiot.

End of topic.

[Dylan Yoshi]

I like Tatl better. She's obnoxious, yeah, but she slowly learns to like Link. She was a big part of the plot.

The problem I have with Navi is not the voice (I agree, Mandolin, people far exaggerate this), but rather her personality. She's just sorta... There. Not really important.

Edit: Also, if ever you've taken the time to talk to the Gibdos outside the Music House, you'll find that the scientist inside, at least in his Gibdo form, was their friend.

[Mandolin]

Yep, you're right.

Majora's Mask > Ocarina of Time and anyone who thinks otherwise is an idiot.

End of topic.

That's kind of a big accusation coming from someone who claims to love video games, but flies into the kind of tantrum most of us are over by the time we turn seven every time somebody mentions that maybe it's a good thing that the mainstream world is starting to embrace video games instead of thinking of them as something perverted sociopaths do in their basements while they scheme up new ways to shoot up their high school. Listen, kid, just put on your indoor helmet and go back to your sandbox. Come back when your testicles drop and you've developed some rudamentary sense of quality control and logical reasoning, and we'll be very happy to have you.

I like Tatl better. She's obnoxious, yeah, but she slowly learns to like Link. She was a big part of the plot.

The problem I have with Navi is not the voice (I agree, Mandolin, people far exaggerate this), but rather her personality. She's just sorta... There. Not really important.

It's because Navi was a very disciplined person who was a diplomat on behalf of the Deku Tree; her personality was one of strict manners and code, since she's pretty much representing what amounts to a Forest God to an outsider. Tatl holds no such position, so she's a bit rougher, louder, and ruder... a street kid, if you will, trying to protect her brother while hanging out with some bad company. You have to look at the character's circumstances before declaring "this one has more personality!" (I don't necessarily mean you, Dylan, just people here in general)

Edit: Also, if ever you've taken the time to talk to the Gibdos outside the Music House, you'll find that the scientist inside, at least in his Gibdo form, was their friend.

Personally, I think the Gibdos outside just call the scientist their "friend" because now he's become a Gibdo like them, and the risk is that in their simple-minded effort to establish kinship with them, they'll get inside and hurt / eat his little daughter (they may even see her as a threat to him!). Then again, the scientist was a benevolent researcher of the undead who didn't spurn them like most of the living did, so maybe that's why they think of him as a friend.

"Your friends... what kind of people are they? I wonder... do they think of you as... a friend?"

[Wood Mario]

Majora's Mask is really fun because its so challenging. Any kind of game that has a time limit (like pikmin) is difficult, it calls for quick thinking, and mutliple strategies to get the job done the fastest way possible. I don't even think its as good as ocarina of time either, but that doesn't mean its not an awesome game.

[ZSW]

I love this game, but I don't care for te time limit. I mean, I love the challenge of the time limit. It makes you check how much time you have left before the moon crashes. But the game also took a step up in the difficulty department, which is why I can't decide if its better than Ocarina or not.

[BK#1Fan]

That's kind of a big accusation coming from someone who claims to love video games, but flies into the kind of tantrum most of us are over by the time we turn seven every time somebody mentions that maybe it's a good thing that the mainstream world is starting to embrace video games instead of thinking of them as something perverted sociopaths do in their basements while they scheme up new ways to shoot up their high school. Listen, kid, just put on your indoor helmet and go back to your sandbox. Come back when your testicles drop and you've developed some rudamentary sense of quality control and logical reasoning, and we'll be very happy to have you.



Haha, the irony is killing me.

You sure are the mature one here.

[DekuScrubby]

Explain. I distinctly remember a three-day limit.

I believe, if you slow time, that's nine hours you're given. Hardly Warioware.

[Wood Mario]

She had an obnoxious attitude. I'd rather hang out with Navi than with Tatl, for instance.

And I'd much rather hang out with the King of Red Lions, and much much more with Midna.

Minda even had a slight "aire" about her. Alot of the time when you went to her for advice, she would make you feel stupid. She would say something like, "It looks like you need to get up there. What do you use to get to high places? Do you remember!?". But, everytime I get well into a zelda game, I feel emotionally attached to my little obnoxious side kick.

[Adam]

Early on in the game, Midna acts like a bitch to you, but slowly warms up as the game progresses...sounds like another supernatural sidekick I know...

Face it broham, you only like Midna better than Navi and Tatl because you think she's hot. :smug:

[Mandolin]

Haha, the irony is killing me.

You sure are the mature one here.

Um... LOL?

Majora's Mask > Ocarina of Time and anyone who thinks otherwise is an idiot.

Pictured above: Maturity, ladies and gents. ;)

Don't worry, BK#1Fan, I used to use arguments like that. When I was six and you hadn't been born yet.

Face it broham, you only like Midna better than Navi and Tatl because you think she's hot. :smug:

Except for the fact that for 99.99% of the game, Midna looks like a small cartoon gremlin with broad, exaggerated features and a modest rack at best. She doesn't become a smoking hot humanoid until about two minutes before the end. As for her attitude and Tatl's, there's a difference between bitchy and snarky; Midna may have teased Link and joked around with him, but she really did help him get things figured out and served many vital in-game purposes. Tatl's purpose was mostly to rattle off exposition and insult you when you asked her for info. Bitchily.

[Adam]

IIRC, her brother was just kidnapped by a guy they were really buddy buddy with. Or he beat her up. It's been a while. I'd be slow to warm with people I just met, too.

[Unexpected]

Some questions are better left unanswered (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lobotomy)

Indeed... o_o

[Kahuna360]

It's been a few years since I last played MM, so mind explaining?

SPOILERSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS


Well, you see a tree stump with Link and Skull carved into it. And then the Lost Woods song plays.

Meaning that the Skull Kid you play Saria's Song for in Ocarina of Time befriends you, and turns out to be the Skull Kid that plays the villain in MM.

[Incubus]

Why I love Majora's Mask:

Clock Town.

To me, this center represents the pinnacle of game design. There are games being made now that try, and fail, to achieve what Clock Town did. What is this magical element?

The characters. The town was bustling, but it didn't feel empty. In many games (Twilight Princess, Ocarina of Time) developers create a capital city, with the focus being to create a bustling city center for the player to get lost in. The thing is... the characters occupying the cities feel dead. This doesn't mean they aren't fun, it means the residents lack soul. Clock Town's citizens didn't. You could speak to each person, and nearly every one had their own story. Every character was dealing with their own hardships. For once, Link wasn't alone in the world. There was more happening than the ultimate evil, and you could divert at any point and relieve the burdens from the characters. They weren't filler, they were developed persons. This makes the town feel more... alive, and the approaching moon all the more foreboding. Who didn't feel sympathetic towards Anju in the Stock Pot Inn, or a pang of loss with the death of Mikau?

The side quests.

I suppose I touched on this. This game was FULL of them, and gave distractions, replay value, and story expansion. No need for a giant paragraph.

The masks.

These were a unique, original mechanic. You said you have them all... so I won't lecture, but I hope you can appreciate the way they were used throughout the game to offer new experiences different from past Zelda titles.

The Three Day System

Ok... this is where most people start bitching about Majora's Mask, but I like it. Why? It fits the story.

Majora's Mask is the story of armageddon. The world is going to end. This is what drives the main story, and it is embodied in the moon. The three day system adds a sort of urgency, pressure, and realism to your plight. The residents of Clock Town sense the danger, and this system takes that hypothetical threat and makes it real. I don't recognize arguments that it mars the adventure- with the ocarina you have more than enough time to find all the gems that Termina has to offer (and trust me... there are a slew of them.)

The music.

Was amazing, like every Zelda.

-------------------

In short, I love Majora's Mask because it was a Zelda game that wasn't afraid to show emotion, and it dared to do something different, and it succeeded. It's brilliant, and definitely one of my favorite Zelda titles.

[Twi]

SPOILERSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS


Well, you see a tree stump with Link and Skull carved into it. And then the Lost Woods song plays.

Meaning that the Skull Kid you play Saria's Song for in Ocarina of Time befriends you, and turns out to be the Skull Kid that plays the villain in MM.

It's also implied that he's the same Skull Kid from Twilight Princess, which suggests that he is immortal.

[Mandolin]

It's also implied that he's the same Skull Kid from Twilight Princess, which suggests that he is immortal.

Color me intrigued. Where does it say that?

I always figured he was doing penance in TP for the chaos he'd caused in the past...

[Twi]

Color me intrigued. Where does it say that?

I always figured he was doing penance in TP for the chaos he'd caused in the past...

Implied and suggests are the keywords in my last post.

The implication comes from the story of the Four Giants which happened to take place a long time ago, and given TP happens some time after Majora's Mask, we can assume he is immortal.

Not only that but he's playing Saria's Song throughout the whole chase, the same song you specifically taught him in Ocarina of Time.

[R Hunter]

Skull Kid always intrigued me, as no matter where we saw him, he always seemed to have some motives for being there. In TP I am firmly convinced that he's guarding the Sacred Grove on Oot/MM Link's request.

But getting to topic. MM for me has always had this element of ungency that I don't get from the other "mainstream" Zeldas. I mean yeah if Link doesn't hurry the world will end but at the end of the day you know you can pause or save and quit and the world will be fine tomorrow. Here Saving (and I mean true saving, not the faux owl stone saving) requires you to travel back to Day 1, somewhat annoying if you're simply trying to make sure any important stuff you've done is preserved and you're on Day 3. Not to mention the three day cycle. I don't know if anyone here remembers (hell, or even SAW) the commercial for the game but in it a teenage guy was playing (or at least game images were moving on the screen) and a voice echoed out "If you only had three days left....

Would you save the world?"

That's what still gets me. Yes the story is darker and a bit more developed than OoT, Yes Tatl is not as....vocal as Navi at certain times (I don't find either more or less annoying than the other, I tolerate both. Midna and her impaling hair FTW.) And yes you can manipulate the clock to give yourself more time, but at the end of the day you've got three days. 72 hours to save this world from utter destruction by the hands of an anicent evil (personally I think Majora acting lonely was just some of Skull Kid's feelings being absorbed into the mask, I ultimately think Majora wants nothing but destruction.) and you've got no sages, no princess, no kickass Master Sword. Just the souls of three spirits that seek retribution.

Can you save the world?

(And to whomever it was that asked about the Swamp Spider house, no. That one can be cleared at any time. Mostly due to not being as difficult as it's ocean cousin.)

[~Cascade~]

Everything Incubus said summarizes why I love this Zelda game much more than the others (besides OOT is my least favourite one I've played, but I love it anyway :))

[repobanjo]

TMajora's Mask definitely cannot work as anything other than a game, and I'd be just fine with that if it weren't a Zelda game.




Damn it, man, you can't say that about EVERY series. :p

Your arguments about this game are very similar to reasons why you don't like Sunshine. I just don't understand. There's no changing your mind, but it makes no sense to not like these games for JUST that reason. And Grey Jinjo was right. You know what you'd be calling these two games if they WERE different characters? Let me pull up an imaginary post that you made

Nice try, Majora's Mask. Does anyone else notice how similar this game is to a LoZ game? Yes, it has a few differences, such as, it's darker, the three-day time, but the core values are exactly the same! Nintendo doesn't seem to be trying hard theses days. I'm glad others realized it, and it didn't sell well. This series won't last another sequel.

3 or 4 years later....

They did it again! Super Waterboy Sunshine is a shameless Mario clone. They even tried to get his TRADEMARK acrobatics in disguised as a waterpack. The game is fun, but perhaps if they released this as a Mario game, and not as something else....

[Mandolin]

Your arguments about this game are very similar to reasons why you don't like Sunshine. I just don't understand. There's no changing your mind, but it makes no sense to not like these games for JUST that reason. And Grey Jinjo was right. You know what you'd be calling these two games if they WERE different characters? Let me pull up an imaginary post that you made

...you know what? You're right. You're totally correct. I am extremely resistant to change (so much so, it's a wonder I'm not a Republican, hur hur hur!), and your post made me realize that. I don't know if Bizarro Mandolin would really say those things; I'm pretty sure I'd be pretty happy with the games if they were part of their own continuity, but kudos for making me see that I am being too stubborn about this. But the fact that I don't object to games that make equally radical changes, such as Super Mario RPG, The Wind Waker, and Yoshi's Island (still need to get an X360 to see how I feel about Nuts & Bolts) may also prove that these are two unrelated, if similar, instances.

[Avarice]

If you didn't like Sunshine, I don't see how you could POSSIBLY like NaB.

[Adam]

...he liked NaB? What the hell?

[Kaiser]

Early on in the game, Midna acts like a bitch to you, but slowly warms up as the game progresses...sounds like another supernatural sidekick I know...


Pikachu?

[Adam]

Yes. Pikachu.

[Avarice]

...he liked NaB? What the hell?

I never said that.

[Grey Jinjo]

...you know what? You're right. You're totally correct. I am extremely resistant to change (so much so, it's a wonder I'm not a Republican, hur hur hur!), and your post made me realize that.

What?! His post was prefaced by "like Grey said" :p.

[Unexpected]

There's just one thing that bothers me in Majora's Mask... there are MANY time paradoxes in the game. For example, if you get the Kafei Mask, go back in time, wear the mask and talk to that woman who gives it to you, she'll still remember you. It's minor, but there are many cases like this in the whole game and it annoys me a bit...