The G20

[Oz the Gay and Powerful]

World leaders are meeting in Toronto to discuss the economy, the oil spill, the war in the Middle East. It's freaking ridiculous. Supposedly the leaders are being flown to an island close to where I live, and so far I've heard two military helicopters zoom overhead. A whole bunch of streets are blocked off where the meeting is going to be held. There are police all over. Just the other day a bunch of cops on motorcycles stopped traffic so these few black cars could pass.

The police presence is crazy. I'm watching the news and there's a bunch of protesters. Two people were arrested earlier were arrested for wielding Molotov cocktails. I feel like Batman is going to show up any minute now.

Anyway I hope these problems begin to get solved, otherwise this is a waste of time.

Yesterday things got worse and worse. Police cars were torched, there was looting and it was just craziness. Here are photos.

Police (http://images.ctv.ca/archives/CTVNews/img2/20100626/800_cp_riot_100626.jpg)
Burning car (http://images.ctv.ca/archives/CTVNews/img2/20100626/800_ap_cruiser1_100626.jpg)
Riot police are in bottom left (http://images.ctv.ca/archives/CTVNews/img2/20100626/600_queen1_100626.jpg)
More Anarchist assholes burning shit (http://beta.images.theglobeandmail.com/archive/00728/g20-protest-45_j_728181gm-a.jpg)
What the anarchists look like (they're in black. Not the old guy lol) (http://2media.nowpublic.net/images//de/8b/de8be737c14f3ff51577ded6348b0392.jpg)
The group is called The Black Bloc, who are located all over the world. Here's one of them on top of a police car :) (http://cdn.trendhunter.com/phpthumbnails/79744_3_468.jpeg)
Intense :cool: (http://cdn.trendhunter.com/phpthumbnails/79744_5_468.jpeg)
Smashed windshield (http://cdn.trendhunter.com/phpthumbnails/79744_7_468.jpeg)
American Apparel looting/property destruction (http://www.trendhunter.com/photos/79744/2)
Fiya! (http://cdn.trendhunter.com/phpthumbnails/79744_1_468.jpeg)
BANK - SMASH!! (http://a123.g.akamai.net/f/123/12465/1d/www.canada.com/news/protests+Toronto+turn+violent/3206512/3206652.bin?size=620x400)
Hey look! An actual fire truck going to put out a fire! (http://a123.g.akamai.net/f/123/12465/1d/www.canada.com/news/rioters+burn+cars+smash+windows/3206512/3206566.bin?size=620x400)
Trying to settle a protest (http://images.ctv.ca/gallery/photo/g8-g20-toronto-violent-protests-20100626/image49.jpg)
Yikes (http://images.ctv.ca/gallery/photo/g8-g20-toronto-violent-protests-20100626/image0.jpg)
This guy is rude (http://images.ctv.ca/gallery/photo/g8-g20-toronto-violent-protests-20100626/image2.jpg)
Versus! (http://images.ctv.ca/gallery/photo/g8-g20-toronto-violent-protests-20100626/image7.jpg)
More police (http://images.ctv.ca/gallery/photo/g8-g20-toronto-violent-protests-20100626/image14.jpg)
It looks like a scene out of a movie (http://images.ctv.ca/gallery/photo/g8-g20-toronto-violent-protests-20100626/image29.jpg)
Looks like he gave up (http://images.ctv.ca/gallery/photo/g8-g20-toronto-violent-protests-20100626/image36.jpg)

[Madous]

Why the hell would people want to kill world leaders when they're trying to fix things? :facepalm

[wkw427]

Just going to get worse. when it was in my town there were protests
Entire downtown area was shut down

[Kaiser]

Well Mexico is there, let's hope they can at least come up with something to solve the cluster**** is going down here.

Oil spill should be #1 IMO. People can't get shrimps anymore due to this D:

[Oz the Gay and Powerful]

It is escalating. Police cars have been set on fire. People have been injured. There are thousands of protesters and the police aren't stepping up. These people are trying to make it to the security fence where the meeting is being held. There's been looting (many stores including a starbucks who loots a starbucks haha). News vans have been damaged and such. It's just getting worse. Public transportation is shut down. Trains going in and out of the city are terminated. Anarchist groups are the ones committing the violence I think.

Gotham City much


Man those police cars are toast

[Avarice]

****ing extremist anarchists.

[Oz the Gay and Powerful]

Yeah, what a bunch of jokers. :conker

[kfred]

:conker

[Oz the Gay and Powerful]

:conker

Dude at least post something constructive. This is a serious issue.

[Jinjonator]

:conker

[Oz the Gay and Powerful]

The ones who were causing the violence apparently changed out of their completely black outfits and into normal street clothes which makes them impossible to differentiate from the regular people.

Boo.

[Kaiser]

It is escalating. Police cars have been set on fire. People have been injured. There are thousands of protesters and the police aren't stepping up. These people are trying to make it to the security fence where the meeting is being held. There's been looting (many stores including a starbucks who loots a starbucks haha). News vans have been damaged and such. It's just getting worse. Public transportation is shut down. Trains going in and out of the city are terminated. Anarchist groups are the ones committing the violence I think.

Gotham City much


Man those police cars are toast
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3yH2zvQBSgs

Similar?

[Oz the Gay and Powerful]

Not exactly. There are a lot more people here. Possibly more than a thousand police officers in riot gear and thousands of protesters. Possibly hundreds of anarchist protesters. A lot of mayhem. The streets have no traffic, it's just a lot of people. That video didn't seem too bad... and it was relatively devoid of activity. The weather is the same though :<

All of it is taking place in the core of the downtown area. Things are calming down now.

edit: Okay, not really. On the news I'm watching a burning police car. A whole bunch of people are taking pics and filming. I've been watching it for like ten minutes and the police just showed up. Where the hell is the fire department


edit: Okay things have calmed down.



edit: also another car was set on fire

Jesus Christ.

[Cooki-Cooki]

American Apparel looting/property destruction (http://www.trendhunter.com/photos/79744/2)
Ah, ****ing anarchists. they had to be hipsters too.

[Avarice]

God dammit I hate people sometimes. What the **** is wrong with these assholes?

[The Banjonator]

The Black Bloc? First time hearing of them. I wonder if that one getting checked out by the police was so confident then. ;P

[Madous]

I don't think I fully understand. All I gathered from this is that many world leaders are meeting in the same place, so anarchists are looting and destroying stuff? I'm not really seeing a connection.

[Snagprophet]

Jesus, why is this not mentioned in BBC News? It's like extreme compared to anything that's happened in Britain.

[Cooki-Cooki]

The Black Bloc? First time hearing of them. I wonder if that one getting checked out by the police was so confident then. ;P

According to wikipedia, Black Bloc (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_bloc) is a protest tactic. not an anarchist group

[Oz the Gay and Powerful]

I don't think I fully understand. All I gathered from this is that many world leaders are meeting in the same place, so anarchists are looting and destroying stuff? I'm not really seeing a connection.

Well, the world leaders are meeting, and hundreds of thousands have shown up from around the world to protest various issues because I guess they think they'll get attention. The police, logically, blocked off many streets. Major areas of activity are ghost towns now. Some people out there think we're going to be living in a police state or something.

The protesters were expected to hold non-violent protests, which happens everyday in Toronto, and it's a democratic right of course. The anarchist group was one of them, but as it turns out a part of that group didn't think that way, and it seems this is just an excuse for violence. They're nuts. People have criticized the Toronto police force for going to these extensive measures and view them as intimidating, but when we've known for weeks in advance that police would be doing this, and for good reason (look what happened), their criticisms are not valid. You could argue that the police being around in such large numbers creates a hot spot for dangerous activity, but who acted first, the criminals or the police?

The criminals smashed not just corporation-owned stores, but mom & pop stores as well. The downtown is being cleaned up right now I guess, but I expect the number of protesters, and the violence, to increase this afternoon. Over 130 arrests have been made and 3 people have sustained head injuries according to the news channel I was watching last night, but those numbers were probably higher.

According to wikipedia, Black Bloc (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_bloc) is a protest tactic. not an anarchist group

Hmm, well, that's definitely the tactic the violent protesters were using.

[Mr 3vil]

Then again, couldn't they hold the meeting in secrecy, complete with private jets?

[Oz the Gay and Powerful]

It's so public knows they're trying to solve problems.

[Mr 3vil]

It's so public knows they're trying to solve problems.

Sounds like they're causing a larger problem by making it public. Think about how much money they wasted and the damage caused from the riots. Whether they held the meeting in private or public, wouldn't have changed the fact that there's an oil spill and something needs to be done about it.

Once the problem is actually taken care of or that people saw there's action, I don't see the point in holding a public private meeting.

Pretty much, the fact people couldn't actually see inside the building or there was all these guards, made it pointless to have this public.

[Oz the Gay and Powerful]

Yes, I know. I'm just saying that would be the most logical reason. Too bad it's illogical.

[Hey, I'm Grump]

A bunch of old fogies gather in a certain city under the guise of political debate, have lunch, chat, and decide/resolve sweet **** all.

[Gruntling]

Rioting in Canada? How strange...

[Oz the Gay and Powerful]

A bunch of old fogies gather in a certain city under the guise of political debate, have lunch, chat, and decide/resolve sweet **** all.

A political debate was never mentioned. Do you think they all decided it would be fun to have a sleepover?

[Hey, I'm Grump]

A political debate was never mentioned. Do you think they all decided it would be fun to have a sleepover?

I'm sure people thought that about Copenhagen.

[Oz the Gay and Powerful]

Okay so now, there's no violence, but I'm watching the news and the police are just arresting ****ing everyone in this certain protest group. They're taking no chances but... they are also threatening to arrest people in the media too if they don't leave the hot spot.

Which is ****ing ridiculous. This weekend is just going shit all over democracy, I guess.

[Tanjo]

Maybe they shouldn't hold their G20 meeting in one of the most populous cities on the planet. I'd be pissed too if half of my city was shut down just because some self-important world leaders decided to pretend to give a shit about international crisis'.

[Jinjonator]

"I'm mad that half my city is shut down" ---> "I'm going to destroy half my city."


Logical.

[Oz the Gay and Powerful]

"I'm mad that half my city is shut down" ---> "I'm going to destroy half my city."


Logical.

Hyperbole, but the gist is correct. Stupid fringe anarchist groups wanting attention. Peaceful protesters have the right idea. For some reason the police felt like being douchebags today, when their douchebaggery would've been much better utilized yesterday.

[fategirl132]

Just so you know, the anarchists didn't attack any "mom&pop" stores. For instance, from what I saw Steve's Music Store was left completely untouched even though there was a police car burning right in front of it. They only touched major corporations like Starbucks, American Apparel and GAP. And furthermore, yeah people thought we were gonna be living in a police state because look what happened. The government decides that now it's okay for police to demand I.D and search your bags and if you deny them that they can arrest you? Yeah, at first it was only if you were within 5 metres of the G20 fence, but then all of a sudden I hear multiple stories on the news of them doing that blocks away from the fence. That's an invasion of our Civil Rights. And now look what's happening. People were protesting peacefully, with absolutely ZERO sign of any sort of violent action, and the police have arrested over 600 people, including reporters and members of the media. This isn't Nazi Germany, it's Canada. But it's funny to see how people's opinions change. Yesterday it was "arrest everybody, why aren't the police there?" and then today everybody realizes how insane this is. And finally, yeah, everybody disagrees with the anarchists rioting, but personally I think that's just because they're anarchists. If those people had been rioting for a cause you believed in, I think you would sympathize with them a whole lot more. That's just my take on all this.

[shadowbulba]

I've been following this story on the news and this is scary shit. And it's less than an hour away from were I live. Hopefully no one is killed.

Just so you know, the anarchists didn't attack any "mom&pop" stores. For instance, from what I saw Steve's Music Store was left completely untouched even though there was a police car burning right in front of it. They only touched major corporations like Starbucks, American Apparel and GAP. And furthermore, yeah people thought we were gonna be living in a police state because look what happened. The government decides that now it's okay for police to demand I.D and search your bags and if you deny them that they can arrest you? Yeah, at first it was only if you were within 5 metres of the G20 fence, but then all of a sudden I hear multiple stories on the news of them doing that blocks away from the fence. That's an invasion of our Civil Rights. And now look what's happening. People were protesting peacefully, with absolutely ZERO sign of any sort of violent action, and the police have arrested over 600 people, including reporters and members of the media. This isn't Nazi Germany, it's Canada. But it's funny to see how people's opinions change. Yesterday it was "arrest everybody, why aren't the police there?" and then today everybody realizes how insane this is. And finally, yeah, everybody disagrees with the anarchists rioting, but personally I think that's just because they're anarchists. If those people had been rioting for a cause you believed in, I think you would sympathize with them a whole lot more. That's just my take on all this.

Lighting Police Cars on fire is not peaceful.

[Oz the Gay and Powerful]

People were protesting peacefully, with absolutely ZERO sign of any sort of violent action, and the police have arrested over 600 people, including reporters and members of the media. This isn't Nazi Germany, it's Canada. But it's funny to see how people's opinions change. Yesterday it was "arrest everybody, why aren't the police there?" and then today everybody realizes how insane this is.

Nazi Germany? It isn't even comparable. Police are doing this because of yesterday, which is a poor excuse, but the protesters they were arresting today were intruding on other people's property. What do they hope to achieve? Did they really think chanting "LET THEM OUT" would actually have any effect on the outcome of individuals arrested? It just causes more problems for everyone. This is what happens when people get into a mob mentality. Arresting the media for no reason, that is something I have a problem with. The media is arguably a cornerstone of democracy.

And finally, yeah, everybody disagrees with the anarchists rioting, but personally I think that's just because they're anarchists. If those people had been rioting for a cause you believed in, I think you would sympathize with them a whole lot more. That's just my take on all this.

I don't know about you, but if there's anything I take issue with, it's not something I thik would be solved by property destruction all around the downtown area, and endangering people's lives. Also, it is partly because they're anarchists, but if people are using violence to get across the message that the government is no good, and the alternative to the government is THEM, what is the logical reaction? Even the majority of the anarchist group said they did not want to use violence, and that a fraction of their group, in essence, betrayed them.

Even if I didn't mind the rioting and it was for a cause I believed in, that does not make it right. Too bad I would mind rioting in any case, because that would never solve anything. The only possible situation I could foresee myself being alright with rioting is if, somehow, someone was going to kill the whole world, and only rioting could stop it.

I think you get the point. Rioting is pointless and only makes things worse.

[Jinjonator]

1) Get angry
2) Break a window
3) ????
4) PROFIT!!!


That is, I assume, what the rioters are thinking, though I'm not entirely sure what the 3rd step is, but it must be pretty good.

[shadowbulba]

1) Get angry
2) Break a window
3) ????
4) PROFIT!!!


That is, I assume, what the rioters are thinking, though I'm not entirely sure what the 3rd step is, but it must be pretty good.

I've heard this joke many times on the internet but I still don't know where it's from.

[Oz the Gay and Powerful]

South Park.

[fategirl132]

Lighting Police Cars on fire is not peaceful.

I'm not saying it is. But it was the anarchist doing that, not all the other protesters. But regardless, that was yesterday, today there was absolutely no signs of violent protest and today is when the police decided they could just randomly arrest people.

And arresting people for no reason, including members of the media, and suspending civil rights, I think that is completely comparable to Nazi Germany. No it's certainly not to the same extent, but the ideas are the same. That's how shit like that gets started.
And I'm not saying rioting is what I believe in, nor do I agree with the anarchists actions or agree with what they believe in. I don't see how breaking the windows of stores is going to solve anything. But these people think that something is seriously wrong with the world. And if you thought smashing a few windows would help fix that, then you'd do it. That's what the mindset behind the anarchists is. I don't agree with it, but I understand the emotion behind it.

[Oz the Gay and Powerful]

To be honest I don't think you know how Nazi Germany came to be. This is obviously temporary for the G20. I don't like it, but it's a precaution. Police didn't expect what they should have expected, and now they don't want it to happen again. Besides, no intelligent person would believe that a government, when pressured, won't move democratic rules aside temporarily to settle an issue. Of course they will, and they'll do it at the drop of a hat. In this case, a massive riot in a populated area. I'm not condoning it, but people much of the world has proven that they can't handle democracy when it has the weight of these huge problems.

What's funny is, you didn't see riots for the oil spill. You saw riots for world leaders meeting and talking about how to resolve the oil spill issue, among others. I guess that's because it's hard to pinpoint who caused the spill, and even harder to figure out who to blame for what.



But it's easy to blame the government.

[fategirl132]

To be honest I don't think you know how Nazi Germany came to be. This is obviously temporary for the G20. I don't like it, but it's a precaution. Police didn't expect what they should have expected, and now they don't want it to happen again. Besides, no intelligent person would believe that a government, when pressured, won't move democratic rules aside temporarily to settle an issue. Of course they will, and they'll do it at the drop of a hat. In this case, a massive riot in a populated area. I'm not condoning it, but people much of the world has proven that they can't handle democracy when it has the weight of these huge problems.

What's funny is, you didn't see riots for the oil spill. You saw riots for world leaders meeting and talking about how to resolve the oil spill issue, among others. I guess that's because it's hard to pinpoint who caused the spill, and even harder to figure out who to blame for what.



But it's easy to blame the government.

Actually, I do think I know how Nazi Germany came to be. And THAT is exactly how. Hitler says "oh yeah lets just take away everyones rights for a little while and let me have complete control, as a precaution" and then look what happens. And Civil Rights should be permanent, they shouldn't be suspended EVER, no matter thee circumstances. The point of them is that no matter what you should always have those basic rights. And what's this about "can't handle democracy?" Would we handle a dictatorship a lot better?
No, there weren't any riots for the oil spills because people who are upset about that actually understand that breaking stuff probably won't do them any good. The anarchists certainly didn't agree, but then again they don't exactly seem to have the best notions of what will get them what they want. You seem to be confusing the anarchists and the peaceful protesters. The anarchists only made up a small percentage of the people there this weekend yet you seem to be lumping everybody present in there with them.

[Oz the Gay and Powerful]

Actually, I do think I know how Nazi Germany came to be. And THAT is exactly how. Hitler says "oh yeah lets just take away everyones rights for a little while, as a precaution" and then look what happens.

Okay. :)

And Civil Rights should be permanent, they shouldn't be suspended EVER, no matter thee circumstances. The point of them is that no matter what you should always have those basic rights.

I never argued this. I said it happens, but I think it's wrong.

And what's this about "can't handle democracy?" Would we handle a dictatorship a lot better?

Where are you even inferring this stuff from? Did I say it has to be a dictatorship? Did I say democracy was bad? It's not great but I think it IS the best we have, judging by history, and by people not being able to handle it, I am talking about the riots and the extensive measures the government will go to.

No, there weren't any riots for the oil spills because people who are upset about that actually understand that breaking stuff probably won't do them any good. The anarchists certainly didn't agree, but then again they don't exactly seem to have the best notions of what will get them what they want. You seem to be confusing the anarchists and the peaceful protesters. The anarchists only made up a small percentage of the people there this weekend yet you seem to be lumping everybody present in there with them.

I don't even know what you're talking about right now. You're just making up whatever conclusion you want. I haven't said anything you've thought I've said. This is very frustrating when you take something I've said and turn it around completely. My point was summed up in the last sentence in my above post.

[fategirl132]

Well maybe you should watch what you say more. Maybe I misunderstood your point about how the government shouldn't be able to take away our rights, but when you say that people can't handle democracy it does seem an awful lot like you are condoning it, even if you say you aren't. And yes, I then jump to dictatorship, because quite honestly that's usually what the next step is after a better type of government failed. And my final point in this argument, I'd rather have people in this country willing to do whatever it takes to do what they think will better the government or our country, than people who sit around doing absolutely nothing and thinking taking away my rights is okay as long as it's only a temporary precaution.

[Oz the Gay and Powerful]

Well maybe you should watch what you say more. Maybe I misunderstood your point about how the government shouldn't be able to take away our rights, but when you say that people can't handle democracy it does seem an awful lot like you are condoning it, even if you say you aren't.

Why, for you, does implication overrule absolute confirmation? I like democracy. It's great. Quote that.

And yes, I then jump to dictatorship, because quite honestly that's usually what the next step is after a better type of government failed.

Except that there has been nothing to suggest that our government would fail. Police have been granted new arrest powers temporarily. Why jump to a conclusion like that? It's foolish, arrogant, and ignorant of you you to suggest Canada will become a dictatorship under any circumstance at any point in the near future.

And my final point in this argument, I'd rather have people in this country willing to do whatever it takes to do what they think will better the government or our country, than people who sit around doing absolutely nothing and thinking taking away my rights is okay as long as it's only a temporary precaution.

But that's the thing. Everyone would prefer that. It doesn't happen anywhere. You have what the government gives you. It's the same everywhere, and they're going to interfere whether you like it or not. I'm not arguing that it's a good thing. I know it isn't, but it's inevitable.

In fact, I wasn't really arguing. I was forced into an argument because you made false inferences.

[Snagprophet]

We had something similar with the London G20, although since this is Britain, a passer-by got hit on the back of their legs and promptly died. I think one bank had it's windows smashed. No-one has said if the police attacked anyone or were forced to or anything.

[Jinjonator]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vl_yUR8MNMM

[pinkbull]

lol the police seriously arrested a Toronto Mayoral candidate:

"Wanting a better view of a protest outside Queen’s Park on Saturday, Firth walked to an elevated U of T building. When police told him to leave, he identified himself as a mayoral candidate. He refused and was forced to the ground, his cheek lacerated. He was arrested for obstruction.

“I wasn’t obstructing anyone, I was asking questions,” said Firth, who was taken to the Eastern Ave. detention centre where he needed insulin for his Type 1 diabetes. Sunday morning he was taken to the Finch Ave., courthouse and again needed insulin, so was sent to hospital. He later returned to court and was released on $1,000 bail. He is considering suing the city and police."

http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/torontog20summit/article/829921--i-will-not-forget-what-they-have-done-to-me?bn=1