Link to the Past vs OOT

[GameMasterGuy]

IMO ALTTP is better. The soundtrack is epic, the dark world is a much better idea than the different times thanks to the magic mirror and the fact that the shadow temple and what leads up to it is basically all that requires time period hopping, and the art looks fantastic. Discuss, argue, and ki- uh, keep it under control.

[The Colonel]

Hm... one is 3D, one is top-down... TOTALLY COMPARABLE!

[GameMasterGuy]

One doesn't use 3D, the other uses it so poorly that it might as well not have it at all.

[The Colonel]

One doesn't use 3D, the other uses it so poorly that it might as well not have it at all.

"So, we've got this console that can make 3D games, what do we do with it?"

"MAKE 16-BIT ZELDA"
...

Is that what you're saying they should have done?

[Doorstop]

Hm... one is 3D, one is top-down... TOTALLY COMPARABLE!

Other than that, they share such a large amount of elements it's not that hard to compare.

[Articerile]

I honestly prefer LTTP, and I feel a 3D remake would make it a far better game than OOT by every standard.

[The Banjonator]

I would love it if Nintendo made a 3D remake of all the 2d games. :O

[Mandolin]

Whoa, is this a joke? OOT, for chrissakes. Don't get me wrong, LTTP is good, but it's not better than the #1 game of all time. :P

[Oz the Gay and Powerful]

One doesn't use 3D, the other uses it so poorly that it might as well not have it at all.

nope.

[Kazooie-Tooie]

Whoa, is this a joke? OOT, for chrissakes. Don't get me wrong, LTTP is good, but it's not better than the #1 game of all time. :P

well someone's OPINIONATED




don't you hate it when people say that?

[Dylan Yoshi]

They're both great games, but OOT is overall better designed.

[Dan]

Mandolin hit the nail on the head, you can't compare any game to zelda OOT it's not really fair, even if you have a legitimate argument (such as how, you know, majoras mask was actually a better game), 80% of people think OOT is the greatest game ever made, so you'll just get attacked for saying otherwise..

[Articerile]

Let's see.
LTTP has more and better dungeons.

[frankieforever]

I say a Link to the Past. I grew up with that game and had so many fun memories with it.


You're really making me want to play it again, man!

[Zy0n7]

OoT hands down.

[Mandolin]

(such as how, you know, majoras mask was actually a better game)

You're allowed to like it more, but it's not a better game no matter how you slice it. Not even close.

[The Banjonator]

Ima have to reserve judgement until I replay OoT on the 14th of June. Last and only time I played it I was like 7 years old and thus, remember next to nothing.

[Articerile]

You're allowed to like it more, but it's not a better game no matter how you slice it. Not even close.

Oh, so you're saying Ocarina of Times horribly plain story is far superior to Majoras Masks complicated inter-twined majesty?

The characters have depth, the plot has depth.

Ocarina of Time is just, bad shit is happening. Fix it.
Ok I've fixed it. Yay.

[Mandolin]

Oh, so you're saying Ocarina of Times horribly plain story is far superior to Majoras Masks complicated inter-twined majesty?

The characters have depth, the plot has depth.

Ocarina of Time is just, bad shit is happening. Fix it.
Ok I've fixed it. Yay.

I agree. Ocarina of Time has a grand-scale but generic story, Majora's Mask has a small-scale but complex and engaging story.

Be that as it may, the latter isn't better than the former in any way at all.

[The Banjonator]

Legitimately not saying this to egg you on or anything to cause anger/resentment, but what exactly makes a game good? What is it about OoT that makes it better than MM? Just out of curiosity and not "my opinion is right now explain why you think yours is so I can counter it".

[Mandolin]

Legitimately not saying this to egg you on or anything to cause anger/resentment, but what exactly makes a game good? What is it about OoT that makes it better than MM? Just out of curiosity and not "my opinion is right now explain why you think yours is so I can counter it".

I could write an entire essay about that (in fact, I think I will one of these days), but to keep it short... (http://therwp.com/forums/blog.php?b=715)

Edit: Also, this. (http://therwp.com/forums/blog.php?b=790)

[Dan]

Majoras mask is only considered worse because it came out second. by 2000 the dreamcast was already out with 128 bit graphics and there was word of a ps2 coming out, those polygons weren't the revolutionary graphics OOT had.

[DarthConker]

OOT. LTTP just got annoying with all that Dark World crap by the end. Also OOT was better designed in my opinion, dungeons especially.

[Mew 101]

Don't make me choose. My head will asplode.

[The Colonel]

OoT. But then again, I still need to finish LttP. If it was an option, I would vote MM, hands down.

[Articerile]

I didn't want to explore Hyrule Field that much because there was so much that was there, but served absolutely no purpose whatsoever.
It was just a lot of empty space that I had to traverse a lot. And don't say that Majoras Mask has a lot of waiting if you miss something, that's one of the worst things about the first half of Ocarina of Time is missing the drawbridge and having to spend the whole night waiting. Sure, there's the Suns Song, but by the time you get that you've got very little left to do in town, and you'll have the warp soon enough.

Sure, Majoras Mask only has 4 dungeons, whereas Ocarina has what 12?
If you say Ocarina has 12, that means you're counting the Ice Cave and Gerudo Fortress, in that case Majoras Mask has the two Skulltula Houses, which are more of a dungeon than the Ice Cave. And then there is the whole Ikana Castle, and the Pirates Fortress, then there's the ReDead Maze and the Moon.
So that's 8.

Don't say Majoras Mask is lacking for dungeons...
Sure, Majoras Mask still may not have as many. But quantity isn't quality.
But far too many people thing it's a better game, so let's see.
What could possibly be better?
Most things.
Everyone has their own story, the characters have immense depth.
The story is better.
Don't say Ocarina of Time has a story on a grand scale, because it's not.
The story is this.
Zelda thinks Ganondorf wants the Triforce, she sends you to get it before him.
You unlock it, and he nabs it.
You then gather the power to defeat him.
Ganondorf had no depth. He just wanted power.

Skull Kid had far more depth than Ganondorf.


It was just a deeper game in all respects.
I guess you're just shallow.

[GameMasterGuy]

OOT. LTTP just got annoying with all that Dark World crap by the end. Also OOT was better designed in my opinion, dungeons especially.

For the most part... I've respected everyone's opinions... but how exactly was the Dark World "crap" at any point in the game? Well, unless you count that bit where you're a rabbit, but that doesn't count. It was my favorite system in all of Zelda!

[Spudfish93]

One doesn't use 3D, the other uses it so poorly that it might as well not have it at all.

Bullshit! Ocarina of time was one of the first 3D games ever made, and the way it utilized it was revolutionary. I didn't notice any problem with the 3D in that game and I think that the game would be worse without it. Ocarina of time, in my opinion was totally flawless.
That had better be a troll.


don't you hate it when people say that?

No, because it's true.

Oh, so you're saying Ocarina of Times horribly plain story is far superior to Majoras Masks complicated inter-twined majesty?

The characters have depth, the plot has depth.

Ocarina of Time is just, bad shit is happening. Fix it.
Ok I've fixed it. Yay.

That is the most generic and plain overview to anything with any story. You could LITERALLY say that with any game or film.
Majora is bringing the world to the end. Stop it.
The evil empire has taken over. Stop them.
The world is ending. Save people.
The covenant wants to destroy humanity. Stop them.
Need I go on?

Skull Kid had far more depth than Ganondorf.

Bollocks to that. Skull Kid is just some kid without friends so he does mischief. Wow.

This thread is making me rage royally.
Majora's mask is a good game but it is not as good as Ocarina of time simply because there's side quests, more of something isn't necessarily a good thing, Majora's mask had so many side quests because it was lacking in main quests and offers a diversion. Seriously, if you took the side quests out of MM the game would be short. As. Hell.

[BKGeno4Ever]

I honestly prefer LTTP, and I feel a 3D remake would make it a far better game than OOT by every standard.
3D remake would be great.

Majoras Mask Ocarina of Time. Only nostalgites and anti-popular-game people say that LttP is better. I have and have played both games. LttP is good for its time but that doesnt mean it's a better game. LttP isn't nearly as underrated as people make it out to be.

[The Banjonator]

Bullshit! Ocarina of time was one of the first 3D games ever made, and the way it utilized it was revolutionary. I didn't notice any problem with the 3D in that game and I think that the game would be worse without it. Ocarina of time, in my opinion was totally flawless.
That had better be a troll.




No, because it's true.



That is the most generic and plain overview to anything with any story. You could LITERALLY say that with any game or film.
Majora is bringing the world to the end. Stop it.
The evil empire has taken over. Stop them.
The world is ending. Save people.
The covenant wants to destroy humanity. Stop them.
Need I go on?



Bollocks to that. Skull Kid is just some kid without friends so he does mischief. Wow.

This thread is making me rage. How can so many people be so ignorant.
Majora's mask is a good game but it doesn't hold a candle to Ocarina of time.
Not to mention more of something isn't necessarily a good thing, Majora's mask had so many side quests because it was lacking in main quests and offers a diversion. Seriously, if you took the side quests out of MM the game would be short. As. Hell.

Perhaps you should stop caring that people enjoy Majora's Mask better than Ocarina of Time. Seriously, you are raging over such a stupid reason. And a huge chunk of Majora's Mask is the sidequests, so no duh if you took them away it'd be short. They're both very good games, so stop getting angry just because people think one is better/more fun than the other.

[BKGeno4Ever]

Dungeons sock dictionary. Just sayin'.

[Spudfish93]

Perhaps you should stop caring that people enjoy Majora's Mask better than Ocarina of Time. Seriously, you are raging over such a stupid reason. And a huge chunk of Majora's Mask is the sidequests, so no duh if you took them away it'd be short. They're both very good games, so stop getting angry just because people think one is better/more fun than the other.

I can't avoid it. Sorry.
It just feels like:
A) a complete injustice to great art
B) a kick to my childhood joy
It's like if I told you Piss Christ is better than the Mona Lisa, would you not be slightly annoyed?

[DarthConker]

For the most part... I've respected everyone's opinions... but how exactly was the Dark World "crap" at any point in the game? Well, unless you count that bit where you're a rabbit, but that doesn't count. It was my favorite system in all of Zelda!
I didn't say that the Dark World was crap. I said it got annoying, mostly due to switching between Light and Dark. And it being your favorite Zelda system doesn't really change anything.
It's like if I told you Piss Christ is better than the Mona Lisa, would you not be slightly annoyed?
Yeah, but I'm also annoyed that you're implying Majora's Mask is comparable to a crucifix dunked in urine.

[The Banjonator]

I can't avoid it. Sorry.
It just feels like:
A) a complete injustice to great art
B) a kick to my childhood joy
It's like if I told you Piss Christ is better than the Mona Lisa, would you not be slightly annoyed?

Well, if people started saying OoT sucked and is terrible then I could see why it would be a kick to you childhood joy, but it just seem like people are saying why/how they like MM more.

As for the analogy, I wouldn't say it's very fair since Mona Lisa is known world wide and critically acclaimed. Piss Christ is... well, not as famous. Both MM and OoT are very famous, so it'd be more like Mona Lisa to... i dunno any other world famous art

[Spudfish93]

Yeah, I didn't directly imply that Majora's mask was like Piss christ, it's just the first two pieces of art that came to mind.

[Mandolin]

I didn't want to explore Hyrule Field that much because there was so much that was there, but served absolutely no purpose whatsoever.

It served the purpose of making Hyrule seem like a real place, not a four-biome doughnut.

And don't say that Majoras Mask has a lot of waiting if you miss something...

I will. Because it's true. Not much more to it than that, really.

...that's one of the worst things about the first half of Ocarina of Time is missing the drawbridge and having to spend the whole night waiting. Sure, there's the Suns Song, but by the time you get that you've got very little left to do in town, and you'll have the warp soon enough.

Bullshit. You can get the Sun's Song before you get Zelda's Lullaby.

If you say Ocarina has 12, that means you're counting the Ice Cave and Gerudo Fortress...

I'm counting anything with a dungeon map and compass, including the Ice Cavern and the Bottom of the Well. There are about eleven dungeons in Ocarina, four in Majora. Even if you add the latter's non-dungeons to the mix and nothing more to the former, OOT comes out on top.

in that case Majoras Mask has the two Skulltula Houses, which are more of a dungeon than the Ice Cave.

Except that's actually not true. See above.

And then there is the whole Ikana Castle, and the Pirates Fortress, then there's the ReDead Maze and the Moon.
So that's 8

Even if I give you all of them, that's still eight to eleven. Eight to twelve or thirteen if I add OOT's non-dungeons. If you wanna play the numbers game, you're fighting a losing war no matter how you slice it. I'd tell you to argue for quality over quantity, but you'd lose out on that too, because every last dungeon in Majora's Mask ranges from terrible to underwhelming.

Don't say Majoras Mask is lacking for dungeons...
Sure, Majoras Mask still may not have as many. But quantity isn't quality.

That is true. However, OOT's dungeons are still superior in quality.

But far too many people thing it's a better game, so let's see.

That's not an argument. Ocarina overall is more popular than Majora, but you don't see me making that argument.

Everyone has their own story, the characters have immense depth.

"Immense" depth is going to far, but I'll grant you that the characters are much more developed.

The story is better.

I'll grant you that, as I've said.

Don't say Ocarina of Time has a story on a grand scale, because it's not.
The story is this.
Zelda thinks Ganondorf wants the Triforce, she sends you to get it before him.
You unlock it, and he nabs it.
You then gather the power to defeat him.

And to gather the power to defeat him you travel through time, travel all across Hyrule and meet a number of extraordinary characters, and then there's the bit about growing up, from a boy to a man and experiencing the , which is a bit hamhanded as symbols go but beautiful nevertheless. You really get a feel for how important Link is, and how things in Hyrule deteriorate when he's not around to keep the peace. In Majora's Mask, even though the story is more complex and clever, you feel like you're only doing everyone's chores.

Ganondorf had no depth. He just wanted power.

Skull Kid had far more depth than Ganondorf.

Horseshit. I'm not here to argue that the Skull Kid was a bad character (in fact, I rather like him), but he's nothing more than a lonely thief who got taken advantage of (by a villain with no motive at all). Ganondorf, as a villain, is more fleshed-out and more sympathetic. Sure, it doesn't really come off in OOT all that much, but when his motive is revealed in The Wind Waker, Hyrule's alleged greatness and harmony is thrown into question. Ganondorf is a better villain. He's a better bad guy, far and away.

It was just a deeper game in all respects.

It was a deeper game in terms of story and characterization, but that's not enough to amend for its many flaws.

I guess you're just shallow.

That's a bit low. I guess you're just an asshole.

[Oz the Gay and Powerful]

I didn't want to explore Hyrule Field that much because there was so much that was there, but served absolutely no purpose whatsoever.
It was just a lot of empty space that I had to traverse a lot. And don't say that Majoras Mask has a lot of waiting if you miss something, that's one of the worst things about the first half of Ocarina of Time is missing the drawbridge and having to spend the whole night waiting. Sure, there's the Suns Song, but by the time you get that you've got very little left to do in town, and you'll have the warp soon enough.

Sure, Majoras Mask only has 4 dungeons, whereas Ocarina has what 12?
If you say Ocarina has 12, that means you're counting the Ice Cave and Gerudo Fortress, in that case Majoras Mask has the two Skulltula Houses, which are more of a dungeon than the Ice Cave. And then there is the whole Ikana Castle, and the Pirates Fortress, then there's the ReDead Maze and the Moon.
So that's 8.

Don't say Majoras Mask is lacking for dungeons...
Sure, Majoras Mask still may not have as many. But quantity isn't quality.
But far too many people thing it's a better game, so let's see.
What could possibly be better?
Most things.
Everyone has their own story, the characters have immense depth.
The story is better.
Don't say Ocarina of Time has a story on a grand scale, because it's not.
The story is this.
Zelda thinks Ganondorf wants the Triforce, she sends you to get it before him.
You unlock it, and he nabs it.
You then gather the power to defeat him.
Ganondorf had no depth. He just wanted power.

Skull Kid had far more depth than Ganondorf.


It was just a deeper game in all respects.
I guess you're just shallow.

I will never understand the "immense depth" people are talking about when it comes to the characters in Majora's Mask. There was no depth to these characters. You can't just say there was without providing any examples. I think people are looking for depth where there is none, especially in Zelda games. And your comparisons with dungeons, how about we go with actual dungeons? Ocarina of Time did have more in the end, without scaling the figures up or down, and it's subjective as to which dungeons you like better. As for the Ice Cavern and Beneath the Well, they're actual mini-dungeons with small keys, dungeon maps, compasses and mini-bosses.

Also, stop simplifying everything in order to prove a point. Yes, Ocarina of Time did have a simple story, and yes it was a grand scale because it involved an entire world, all of its inhabitants, and you see the world change and grow. It's a simple story told on a grand scale. It isn't hard to wrap your head around and you can't just say "well, nope", that isn't an argument. Nor is "well let's see what are the facts the story is better hurrrr"

[Dan]

The characters in majoras mask were intertwined, realistic, and each had their own motivations and reasoning, they weren't just 'i came out of no where and want power' like ganondorf, you get a backstory of the skullkids past, his depressions, his desires, his reasonings, as well as everyone elses.. the anju and kafei sidequest is phenomonal, especially if you try to solve it all legitimately yourself and not be a cop out and use a guide. Majoras mask was VERY heavily side quest based as opposed to the main dungeons themselves. There was also just.. something very different about majoras mask.. most games just say youre the hero, hes the bad guy, go beat him up, but this games more.. see that? you're dead, and there's nothing you can do about it. Everyones going to die, no matter how hard you try you cant save everyone, and even if you go to incredible legnths to help people, they'll forget you even exist about an hour of gameplay later and be screwed again anyway.. there was just this overshadowing sense of doom and despair the entire game.. as well as its fair share of what the **** parts like on the farm o_O... Ocarina of time was very generic and straight forward; except that link got all the bitches and then some, but it was a GREAT game, a 10/10, majoras mask just was too, and on a very deep level.. When you can go to the laundry pool, an area that's very scarcely visited, and see a character there crying for no other reason than to add meaning to the game, in a scene most people don't even know exists in the game, you know they're trying really hard. Majora's mask is a choose your own adventure book with about a million pages in it. It's ****ing amazing.

That being said, OOT is still the best game of all time, while marjoas mask had a better story and quest, a few jumping machanics and angles were really screwy, there was a ****ton of glitches, the songs were worse, the game was shorter and the graphics weren't increased despite 128 bit technology existing due to the limits of the n64 console, Ocarina of time was the epitome of perfection in every category a game can be looked at upon inovating more styles of gameplay than anything to date and setting a bar that developers all but gave up on trying to compete with.

[Articerile]

Saying Ganondorf in Ocarina of Time because of things said in Wind Waker doesn't make him better in Ocarina of Time, it just means that Wind Waker added more depth to the character.

Stephen, you want examples of characters in Majoras Mask who have depth.
Kafei
Anju
Kafei's mother.
The Deku Butler.
The Zoras.
The Gorons.

To name a few. Or you could say pretty much everyone, because pretty much has more than two things to say ever.

Furthermore you say that Ocarina had a grander scale because the whole world was in turmoil.
This is untrue, it's just Hyrule, Ganondorf wanted Hyrule. It's just 'your' world. And there was very little change, very few people in the future had much reaction to these changes, sages aside. Malon, Talon and Ingo had some reaction, but that's all I could think off.

Majoras Mask it's the whole world that's going to be destroyed, as well as the moon. The moon is fully aware as well.
Everyone's sat there worrying about it, everyone is trying to work out what they're going to do. This becomes even more aparant as the time progresses. Whether to stay or evacuate. Many people end up staying because they know it's not going to do much.

It may be a case of horses for courses though. Maybe a lot more depth was added because it was meant to be a game focused on the people and what they needed.
And I don't know about how much room on the cart, but it requires the Expansion Pak.
Mostly because the game has to deal with such intricacy within it. People live their lives in the game, and those lives can all change depending upon what it is you do.

Playing it, I honestly felt as though I was making a difference, as though what I was doing mattered to these people who were for all intents and purposes alive. The impending doom upon the world made me feel I needed to do something about it there and then.


Don't get me wrong however, I love Ocarina of Time, I've played it to death. I own every instance of it, and will continue to do so as soon as 3D comes out, but I just don't felt the dungeons, as good as they were, were as good as those in Majoras Mask.
I'll admit the bosses were awful. Odolwa was cakewalk. Goht was interesting but more of a demolition derby than a boss battle. Gyorg was just ****off annoying. Twinmold is a 3D incarnation of the Sandwurms from LTTP, but didn't feel up to the standard of the rest of the game.


In fact now upon writing this I honestly feel the bosses were an after thought.

But do you know what had brilliant bosses?

A Link to the Past.


Edit: Also you can't get the Sun's Song before you get Zelda's Lullaby, you open the grave using Zelda's Lullaby.

[The Colonel]

I'll admit the bosses were awful. Odolwa was cakewalk. Goht was interesting but more of a demolition derby than a boss battle. Gyorg was just ****off annoying. Twinmold is a 3D incarnation of the Sandwurms from LTTP

I thought Twinmold was f***ing awesome.

[BKGeno4Ever]

Dungeons aren't even that fun. And I'm not saying that MM is way better, I'm must saying that I personally enjoy it more.

In OoT, the ranch. Play a mini-game, get a bottle. The future, race, win s horse, ranch saved. MM ranch: aliens? LOLWUT?

Side quests have points in MM. They allow you to get a better perspective on the characters. Plus, MM was so innovative. It's like comparing Paper Mario 64 to Paper Mario TTYD. Either the traditional awesome game which sticks to tradition or the inventive sequel with new ideas and sidequests. Depends how you are.

Oh, and a game being "revolutionary" doesn't make it good.

[GameMasterGuy]

Dungeons aren't even that fun. And I'm not saying that MM is way better, I'm must saying that I personally enjoy it more.

In OoT, the ranch. Play a mini-game, get a bottle. The future, race, win s horse, ranch saved. MM ranch: aliens? LOLWUT?

Side quests have points in MM. They allow you to get a better perspective on the characters. Plus, MM was so innovative. It's like comparing Paper Mario 64 to Paper Mario TTYD. Either the traditional awesome game which sticks to tradition or the inventive sequel with new ideas and sidequests. Depends how you are.

Oh, and a game being "revolutionary" doesn't make it good.

Agreed. ALTTP may be my favorite overall, but MM had the best sidequests. That does bring me to another good point about ALTTP; most sidequests are along the way. You can try and go straight through the game with only the sidequests you see on your way to the next story location, and end up being at Ganon with most items and all but one health extension.

[Articerile]

But you know the best thing about it?
All the arguments for Ocarina of Time versus MM, are even better when you substitute LTTP.

Because **** it, I've never even properly played Majoras Mask, I'm not particularly good at it. Because I don't play it much, because I'm not good at it. Go figure.
Everything I know about the game I know from watching my housemate play it.
Which is the problem because I've always passed out for the Twinmold fight. Which is why I know **** all about it.


You want to explore a vast Legend of Zelda world? Check out Link to the Past, it has whole areas that are totally unnecessary, but they're still there. Just because they could.

LTTP had 11 FULL Dungeons, that is to say Dungeon Map, Big Key, Compass, Boss.
Then you have the Castle Dungeon, which had it's little miniboss, and that's just as the game begins. You have the other half of the Castle later, after you've gotten the Master Sword, that had a full boss.

Items, my word there is a humongous plethora of items you can get, and not just silly collectibles you can get and don't really do much (I'm looking at you Wind Waker)
And not all of them are even necessary, there are items out there that are totally optional, but still do a lot.

The bosses are amazing, well mostly, I have my own personal beef with Moldorm, but that's nothing really.

In no particular order.
Blind, oh my Blind, you spring to mind first, your boss room was brilliant.
After walking through the dungeon I get to the boss room and bam. Nothing.
Absolutely nothing. Door doesn't even shut behind me. But your gimmick is amazing.

Agahnim next. You know what this guy did? He invented tennis. Remember all those times you played tennis with Ganondorf? This guy did it first.

Trinexx, sorry, but I am a stickler for polarity. You get to the boss and there's this massive ****off dragon thing with three heads. Center head sat doing nothing, and then two smaller ones either side, fire and ice. Predecessor to Twinrova, although I feel it did it better.

Mothula! What a beast! I'm naming my Volcarona after you.

Vitreous and Kholdstare. Points for trying guys, but hell you both had amazing dungeons. We can't all be Blind. Especially not you guys, because you're literally just eyes. You two being Blind would be silly.


Ganon, shit man, you've given me so much grief as a child, and even some to this day. I think the only time I've not had an issue with you was the last time I did LTTP 100% the whole thing.





As it is, my two favourite games, are.
Wait for it.

Link to the Past, and Ocarina of Time.
Why do I like Ocarina of Time more than Majoras Mask? Because I've played Ocarina of Time more, I know it more, but I think Majoras Mask is a better game.
Whilst I think it's a better game I still like Ocarina of Time more because I've had a chance to like it. I hope I get the time to like Majoras Mask as much as I really need to.


Now Link to the Past on the other hand I think beats them hands down. No contest for me.
Every E3 I sit there listening to Nintendo hoping, praying they're remaking Link to the Past in 3D, because I know, that if they do that, it would be the best Zelda game in history.

Because that's it really, the main reason Ocarina of Time is seen in a better light than Link to the Past is because of the system difference. If Ocarina of Time had been presented exactly as it is game, dungeon, plot, but on the SNES, and Link to the Past had been the one to push into 3D, Majoras Mask wouldn't even get a look in.
Majoras Mask probably wouldn't even have existed.

[BKGeno4Ever]

I like breaking off from the story and doing something different. In OoT it was like "Yeah! I beat the Forest Temple!" then you talked with Darunia for a few seconds. "Yeah! Now I get to go to the Fire Temple!" MM lets you do more than explore dungeons. I don't care how mature and disciplined you are. No hero can complete his quest without goofing off a little.

[Spudfish93]

All right. My posts to this point have been responses. Now for my opinion.
Dungeons
Ocarina has more. We've already established this. But I think that they were all really good, maybe with the exception of the Deku Tree but that's just too easy. The dungeons and Temples were great, I love how each one was progressively difficult up to the water temple, and shadow temple was nothing short of unique brilliance.
I also like how each temple/dungeon was themed around the areas, and you could tell that these were ancient temples. However, I do feel the game was a little bit rushed, because it seemed as though there was supposed to be a Light or Time temple that wasn't released. Even so, that doesn't mark the game down.
Having said that, also I like how Majora's mask's dungeons were themed around the area, but unlike Ocarina of time, I just don't think they were really believable, especially the oceanhead temple.
Points go to Ocarina.

Characters
True that Majora's mask had much more depth to their character but more on that later. Ocarina had their important characters personalised around link, such as Saria, Zelda, and the other sages, I also liked how Mido regretted his dickish behaviour to child Link when you meet him as Adult Link, I also like how anyone who wasn't important to Link's quest did not offer to the story. It added to the feel of the game, where Link doesn't have time to stop and chit-chat with random villagers, it made you feel like you were on a deadline and had no time for diversions.
This is not present in Majora's mask, where much of the game is based on the characters, and not the story. I disliked this a lot, primarily because (especially with Anju and Kafei) it seemed that the need to save the world was not top priority, and instead link didn't have a deadline and feels the need to interact with everyone, which is pretty ironic as there IS a deadline in this game.
I also disliked how only a few characters are unique, and everyone else is just the same sprites from ocarina. It's disappointing to see that they didn't bother to create new characters. That would have added to the game.
Points go to Ocarina
Villains
Gannon. Hands down.
The character is more interesting, his goal is more believable and he actually has motivation. Not to mention the boss battle with him is badass!
Because, y'know, there's a buildup with him, whereas Majora seems spontaneous, especially because You expect to fight skull kid and instead you fight some retarded chicken/octopus wearing the mask. Come on.
Even then, skull kid is annoying and his motivation is just to. What exactly?
Points go to Ocarina
Story
Ocarina of time has Link start off as a child, he is just an ordinary average kid living with his friends when suddenly he is thrust into a plot to stop Gannondorf from destroying Hyrule through his greed for power and control. You meet some fascinating characters, restore the sages to their former glory and when all is said and done, he returns to his childhood, leaves the master sword and moves on with his life, taking no glory from himself.
By this point you feel as though you have accomplished a great adventure and are thoroughly satisfied with the result.
Majora's mask begins with Link, having saved Hyrule, travelling to find Navi the fairy, who inexplicably ditched him after Ocarina. He is then mugged by skull child, and you chase after him to get your ocarina, where he turns you into a deku scrub. Why?
Anyway, you partake in some filler nonsense to get your Ocarina back and turn into a human, where you have to stop him from crushing Termina with the moon. Again, why does he want to do this?
You then traverse through a stupidly small overworld and by the time you're done, you see everyone happy, Skull kid has friends now (D'aww, bless him!) and you ride off, having accomplished nothing from the original plot (finding navi).
Simply put, this game feels like a diversion from a different plot entirely, and I wasn't satisfied with the ending. At. All.
Points go to Ocarina.
Bosses/Minibosses
The bosses in the child section of Ocarina of Time are really related to the Dungeon, and you know that Ganon put them there to cause shit for not getting the spiritual stone, then after you become adult Link, the bosses become even more badass; Ancient dragons, evil phantoms, biological nightmares, undead horrors, Ganon's mother. Hell, you fight all kinds of awesome shit, although the Minibosses at times feel slightly random, such as the Lizards from Dodongo's Cavern. Even so, this game had it's shit straight!
Majora's mask on the other hand. What the hell.
Odowala, some ginormous slightly racist zulu warrior who just happens to be sitting in a big tree in a swamp. Who was he, why is he there, how did he get there. What? Who? Why?
That big mechanical thing, What is it, how was it made, why is it there, how was it frozen, why do you need to crash into him constantly. That boss was pants.
The big fish thing. he was a pain in my ass but at least he was relevant to the temple.
Twinmold. What. Why. How.
Points go to Ocarina.
Summary
Ocarina is simply better in all aspects. While Majora's mask is fantastic, it just isn't as good as Ocarina and I simply don't understand why everyone thinks otherwise.

[DarthConker]

The generalizations in this thread are astounding, especially against OOT.

[Mandolin]

Saying Ganondorf in Ocarina of Time because of things said in Wind Waker doesn't make him better in Ocarina of Time, it just means that Wind Waker added more depth to the character.

I don't really know what you're saying. "I admit Ganondorf is a more developed character, but I'm still giving the point to the Skull Kid because I want to"? I know you're not arguing that Ganondorf has no motive in OOT, because that'd be like saying Darth Vader isn't Luke's father in Ep. IV.

Stephen, you want examples of characters in Majoras Mask who have depth.
Kafei
Anju

I'll give you these.

Kafei's mother.

She has so little characterization she's barely even a character in the first place.

The Deku Butler.

Stock butler. Not any more characterized than anyone in OOT.

Yeah, your Deku form is actually his dead son, whom the Skull Kid killed. That's not characterization. It's a plot point, but it's not characterization.

The Zoras.
The Gorons.

A band of nameless extras not any more characterized than the ones in OOT.

To name a few. Or you could say pretty much everyone, because pretty much has more than two things to say ever.

You forgot the part where that's actually a lie.

Furthermore you say that Ocarina had a grander scale because the whole world was in turmoil.
This is untrue, it's just Hyrule, Ganondorf wanted Hyrule. It's just 'your' world. And there was very little change, very few people in the future had much reaction to these changes, sages aside. Malon, Talon and Ingo had some reaction, but that's all I could think off.

You clearly didn't pay attention, because the changes are pretty freaking noticeable.

The aftermath of the Deku Tree's death and rebirth in Kokiri Forest, Ganondorf's attempted genocide of the Goron people, the construction projects in Kakariko village coming to fruition, Ingo's takeover of Lon Lon Ranch, Zora's Domain being placed under a spell, the whole... incident in Hyrule Castle Town, up to and including the ghost collector who may or may not be the sentry who once lived in that house, Guru-Guru gradually losing his mind, Dampés death... I think I described more instances of change over time than there are anywhere in Majora's Mask.

Majoras Mask it's the whole world that's going to be destroyed, as well as the moon. The moon is fully aware as well.

No, the whole world isn't going to end. Only Termina is going to end. And the moon isn't fully aware. It may have a goofy-ass face that makes it completely impossible to take seriously, but it's not actually alive, at least not until Majora's Mask takes it over for no reason to continue its seemingly motiveless destruction of Termina.

And don't give me the whole "the Skull Kid wants to destroy the world and / or kill the Giants as payback for turning their backs on him" spiel. Yes, that's the Skull Kid's motive. Once the mask comes off, there's no reason at all for the moon to keep falling. It does so only to steer the plot along. It's completely arbitrary.

Everyone's sat there worrying about it, everyone is trying to work out what they're going to do. This becomes even more aparant as the time progresses. Whether to stay or evacuate. Many people end up staying because they know it's not going to do much.

How's that different from the Hyruleans trying their best to get by after Ganondorf takes control?

It may be a case of horses for courses though. Maybe a lot more depth was added because it was meant to be a game focused on the people and what they needed.
And I don't know about how much room on the cart, but it requires the Expansion Pak.
Mostly because the game has to deal with such intricacy within it. People live their lives in the game, and those lives can all change depending upon what it is you do.

That's an argument from technology, and frankly I've got no time for it.

Playing it, I honestly felt as though I was making a difference, as though what I was doing mattered to these people who were for all intents and purposes alive. The impending doom upon the world made me feel I needed to do something about it there and then.

I never felt like I was making a difference. The changes you see are so minimal and understated, I felt like I might as well have done nothing at all. Only thawing out Snowhead made me feel like I'd actually helped the characters in any way at all. And in any case, I'd say about 80% of the chores you have to do are incredibly boring. It's hard to care about the Terminians if doing good works for them is exhausting as opposed to exciting.

I'll admit the bosses were awful. Odolwa was cakewalk. Goht was interesting but more of a demolition derby than a boss battle. Gyorg was just ****off annoying. Twinmold is a 3D incarnation of the Sandwurms from LTTP, but didn't feel up to the standard of the rest of the game.

I actually really like Goht.

Edit: Also you can't get the Sun's Song before you get Zelda's Lullaby, you open the grave using Zelda's Lullaby.

Shit, you're right.

Well, it's still the second song you get in the game. MM's time-killing problems hound you throughout.

[Articerile]

Right now we've set up the areas where Ocarina of Time is strongest, I believe we should now address those strongpoints with respect to Link To The Past.

Also I neglected to mention how for a decent part of the game you're actually condemned as a criminal, and how the position of power by Agahnim over the King was being used to control those men who willingly gave themselves as service to their country, and are hunting out people who exist purely for the safety of Hyrule and the world itself, and then these people are marked as criminals purely so that Agahnim can get these people to break the seal.

[BKGeno4Ever]

ITT: Herp derp this gaem iss teh bestest becuz ah says so.

LttP- I'll be fair, it's one of those games that I only play every month or so when I do play it I love every second of it. If it was remade in 3D then no doubt it would get the same reception as OoT or MM. The Dark World and Lost Woods are cool and the hub is like a classic LoZ game but with more depth, clarity, and characters.

OoT: Note: REVOLUTIONARY DOESN'T EQUAL GOOD. But yes, OoT follows the traditional Zelda storyline but with much more to offer such as different areas and peoples to help and bond with, a horse, and the ability to go from kid to adult to see the oblivious happiness become a bleak, lifeless tyranny. Loads of content and a couple cool Easter Eggs. Great game overall.

MM: Not really a LoZ game because Zelda only appears in two flashbacks at the beginning of the game. But nonetheless, MM offers a whole new adventure with different playable characters, 20 non-character masks to collect, a dark, creepy story and characters. It also holds true to the Ocarina songs and there's several references to OoT. Sure, OoT had more dungeons, but a lot of people prefer doing open-world exploration. If you put the many sidequests into consideration here, MM is longer. MM also has a time limit which limits your dilly-dally time and makes you budget your time better. Plus, the reused character models are a product of the clash of Skull Kid and Link's minds when the world is made according to the Zelda Wiki. The atmosphere, the goal, and the gameplay overall is different.

It's all preference really. These stupid debates are pointless.

[Zondekel]

MM: Not really a LoZ game because Zelda only appears in two flashbacks at the beginning of the game.

So... is Link's Awakening not a Zelda game, because they only mention Zelda at the beginning when Link wakes up?

...somehow I don't think the lack of titular character makes a game not part of the series... gameplay still holds up properly...

[cooperace27]

I'm going to go with A Link To The Past because I prefer my Nintendo games top down or 2D over their 3D counterparts.

[Tirgo]

that's hilarious because everybody knows oot is better

and everyone also knows ww is the best

[Avarice]

I couldn't even finish LttP, so I'll say OoT.

[Mandolin]

that's hilarious because everybody knows oot is better

and everyone also knows ww is the best

I think you mean second best, Rigby. ;)

[BKGeno4Ever]

So... is Link's Awakening not a Zelda game, because they only mention Zelda at the beginning when Link wakes up?

...somehow I don't think the lack of titular character makes a game not part of the series... gameplay still holds up properly...
Your nit-picking of my logic is pointless because I have already stated several times that I prefer MM.

This thread is retarded. It's basically a clash of ths fanboys with unbiased posts being few a far between.

[Tirgo]

I think you mean second best, Rigby. ;)

i think you mean **** off wind waker is my favorite ;)

[BKGeno4Ever]

Guys, I'm pretty sure that Link's Dump is the best. www.linksdump.com
www.majorasmask.com