Is Sony really evil and Nintendo really good?

[LaorBR]

Right, I originally posted this at the Mario Galaxy thread, but I didn't want to derail it that much, so I decided to open a new one instead.
This is a reply to Bottles98 posts about Sony, and represent my opinions. Please don't think of this as "flaming nintendo", I just want to have a smart discussion, and share my opinions.

So let's start
Sony, just like Nintendo, is a huge company, there are people there who want to make fresh, good games, such as: Mickey Mania(Snes/Gen), Syphon Filter(PSX), Shadow of the Colossus(PS2), God of War(PS2), the Crash Bandicoot series, Legend of Dragoon, Legend of Legaia, etc.
If it wasn't for Sony, Square-Enix wouldn't be that graphical powerhouse company that we know of, Megaman Legends wouldn't exist, Metal Gear Solid wouldn't be so much popular, and the gaming industry as we know would be much more childish if Nintendo was always at the first place.
Just some examples of the good Sony.
And then there is $ony, the crowd who want to leech you dry until your very last cent is gone.

Same thing about Nintendo. There are people who want to innovate, try new ideas. And there are people who want quick money, so they can pay the producers, so the producers can keep on innovating.
Or do you think that Pokémon: Puzzle League that was a dumb Tetris:Attack! rip-off wasn't made to make money off their naive fanboys? Do you think that those Mario Tennis, Golf, Soccer, Squash, Cricket, Party 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10¾ isn't a well planned and elaborated casual gamer trap?

I'm not saying that those games are bad. Actually I love Mario Tennis:Power Tour for GBA.
But (most of) those games were clearly made to make quick money. Specially the Party ones, that started off good, and then became pointless. Good thing now we have WarioWare, which is much more superior.

Think about it. Just for clarification, I still prefer the Nintendo games over the Sony ones, but that doesn't forbid me from seeing the rotten side of Nintendo.

*Just sharing my thoughts ;)*

[Princess J]

THANK YOU!

Personally, I like Sony. They have a lot of very fun games that you'll only find on the PS2, and many good companies supporting them. The PS2 has so many games on it that everyone, no matter what age or what preferences, can find something they like. It's a great console for all kinds of gamers. Of course, it's not Sony themselves that make many of my favorite PS2 games... it's other developers. But the PS2 is just a great, solid console to play them on. I liked Sony being there this generation, even though I doubt I'll get their next-gen console at this cost.

I'm sure Sony does a lot of things just to make more money. But isn't that what *any* corporation does? Seriously, that's just what business is. They make what they think will appeal to the market. They have ripped off Nintendo before, which is definitely wrong, but think about it... it's almost inevitable. When Nintendo sets the standard, what would you EXPECT its competitors to do? Once again- that's business. It's not right, but business isn't right, and that's the way the world is run. People mimic what's successful; you'll find it all over the place. Nintendo even knows this, and that's why they're so secretive these days. Which is why I don't mind when they don't reveal things right away.

And I really love Nintendo. They're my favorite gaming company and will probably always remain so. But anyone who thinks EVERY game they make is simply for the love of gaming and innovation, and not to make a quick and shallow profit, is fooling themselves. Nintendo does care a lot about the quality and creativity of their games, and they still pay attention to the rich worlds and characters they have crafted throughout the years. They are a company based on a tradition of quality, and I love that. But they DO make an insane amount of spinoffs based off of their already successful franchises, in order to leech off of their devoted fanbase who will buy whatever they crank out. Like Laor said, think about the ridiculous amounts of Mario sports and parties, for instance. Seriously, Mario Party stopped being fun after number 3. Mario Tennis and Mario Kart are fun, but... when Mario plays basketball and DDR, you've got to ask yourself, has this gone too far? But regardless of quality, people continue to buy these games, and Nintendo continues to profit. And as long as that keeps up, the onslaught of spinoffs that are the slow ruination of the Mario series will not stop either.

So you see, every company has their flaws. Even Nintendo. And being pointedly biased against a single company is no better than being obsessively fanatical about one, either.

[holyice7]

I'm not saying that those games are bad. Actually I love Mario Tennis:Power Tour for GBA.

Well, that game, I'm fairly sure, was produced by Camelot, who REALLY should be working on another Golden Sun title. Just a thought.

And if I may play Devil's advocate for a moment...

And I really love Nintendo. They're my favorite gaming company and will probably always remain so. But anyone who thinks EVERY game they make is simply for the love of gaming and innovation, and not to make a quick and shallow profit, is fooling themselves. Nintendo does care a lot about the quality and creativity of their games, and they still pay attention to the rich worlds and characters they have crafted throughout the years. They are a company based on a tradition of quality, and I love that. But they DO make an insane amount of spinoffs based off of their already successful franchises, in order to leech off of their devoted fanbase who will buy whatever they crank out. Like Laor said, think about the ridiculous amounts of Mario sports and parties, for instance. Seriously, Mario Party stopped being fun after number 3. Mario Tennis and Mario Kart are fun, but... when Mario plays basketball and DDR, you've got to ask yourself, has this gone too far? But regardless of quality, people continue to buy these games, and Nintendo continues to profit. And as long as that keeps up, the onslaught of spinoffs that are the slow ruination of the Mario series will not stop either.

Well, when you consider that Sony and Microsoft practically have a, shall we say "Scrooge McDuck" money room to finance their game wing, you have to also realize that Nintendo is keeping itself afloat entirely on the games it produces. While Sony certainly isn't trying to lose money on the production of a game, it's a risk they can be less afraid to take than Nintendo can. Despite all Nintendo's innovations, they sometimes have to take the safe route.

[Bottles98]

I've just gotta say, I own a PS1 and PS2, but have no urge to get a PS3. At all. And I believe it's true that Sony only cares about money, and Nintendo does care about (most) games. Obviously, there WILL be some by Nintendo that were made for a quick buck, but Nintendo is currently the only company that produces both systems and games. I really think that says something.

[Hollow Note]

I do love my PS2, but with some of the "creations" that Sony is taking credit for nowadays, they're really starting to piss me off.

[LaorBR]

Glad to see people posting :)
Hmm I forgot about Legend of Dragoon and Legend of Legaia in my first post... Fixed.
you have to also realize that Nintendo is keeping itself afloat entirely on the games it producesYou forgot that Nintendo made a lot of money selling GBAs. It is the most successful handheld to date.

And yeah, Camelot did a great job with Mario Tennis and Mario Golf for GBA. :) If you think about it, all Mario spin-offs were made by third-parties. It was either Camelot, Hudson, Intelligent Systems or the unknow crowd at Next Level Games, whatever that company is. And like what PJ have said, there is a Mario Dance Dance Revolution made by Konami, which is quite... weird.

But just because those were made by third parties doesn't mean that Nintendo isn't making loads of money from these titles.

[Benjo-Kazooie]

Nintendo and Sony worked together on the PS, when Nintendo didn't like it Sony sold it for revenge, so people don't like Sony.
Me, I just don't plain like them.

[Gold Jinjo]

Well, when you consider that Sony and Microsoft practically have a, shall we say "Scrooge McDuck" money room to finance their game wing, you have to also realize that Nintendo is keeping itself afloat entirely on the games it produces.

Erm... why is it that people never seem to realize Nintendo isn't exactly poor? They've been around for well over 20 years -- they're swimming in money too. Nintendo's not going to go bankrupt, Nintendo's income doesn't rely solely on their games... it's stupid and naive to even think this.

Not to mention Nintendo is the only company who actually make a profit on their consoles after making their production costs back, yet Microsoft and Sony barely even make their production costs back :p

[Zy0n7]

Erm... why is it that people never seem to realize Nintendo isn't exactly poor? They've been around for well over 20 years -- they're swimming in money too. Nintendo's not going to go bankrupt, Nintendo's income doesn't rely solely on their games... it's stupid and naive to even think this.

Not to mention Nintendo is the only company who actually make a profit on their consoles after making their production costs back, yet Microsoft and Sony barely even make their production costs back :p


Really? I mean, nintendo consoles are always the cheapest, they are the first to lower it's price and even lower it again. How are they supossed to make any profit from selling low cost (compared to Sony and Microsoft) consoles at low price? Or are the cost productions even lower than the prices? And well, anyway, except for the GB, nintendo lately sell many units of their home consoles (compared to the PS2)

Anyway, personally I hate Sony, but I don't reject playing a good game on a PS with my friends, but I'm never gonna buy one (I'd like to fully play those FF,SH,MG games though).

Changing topic, how come a Smash brothers Wii hasn't been anounced yet? I thought It will come out along with the Wii. (correct me if it has been anounced or wathever)

By the moment I'm planing to get Zelda (Wii version of course), Metroid 3, Sonic WF, and perhaps FF CB or Dragon Quest if they are really worth it.
Plus a Wii and at least an extra controller, and wathever it's necessary to get it online (like the wifi adaptor for the DS).

Wow, that looks like I'll have to find a part time job this summer
:p

[PaintGamma]

You also have to know that games and systems aren't the only things these companies find quick cash off of. Nintendo does well in marketing other products to due to thier famous franchises.


Nintendo Cereal, TV Shows, furniture, toys, ascessories (which many are 3rd party anyway), etc etc.

So I mean, Nintendo when it comes to other product marketing, Nintendo wins =P cause I mean really. Am I going to buy a Pyramid Head Plushie or Master Chief-Os?

[Bottles98]

How are they supossed to make any profit from selling low cost (compared to Sony and Microsoft) consoles at low price?
<sarcasm> Oh, yes! If more people buy the Nintendo consoles because they're cheaper, how does Nintendo ever make the production costs back? </sarcasm>

Seriously. Reread that post of yours. It made little sense. ;)

[Grey Jinjo]

Nintendo has cereal?

[LaorBR]

We once got a Pokémon cereal around here, if that will do.
And also those Mario "Got Milk?" advertises... just infamous.

[Gruntling]

Nintendo has cereal?

Look on Retro 80's and 90's sites. Nintendo had Mario and Zelda cereal and plenty of toys at fast food chains for years.

[vaticandrummer]

Nintendo has cereal?


Actually, they did. WAY back in the day. Around the time of SMB1, IIRC. They also had Link cereal. It was like Nerds candy; Mario on one side, Zelda on the other.

[Theguyoverthere]

Oh, I loved those comercials! I like the one where they're like "Jump, Mario, Jump!" and Mario can't jump high enough to get over something and then they leave the room and he rumps out of the TV screen and drinks milk... classic.

As for $*ny, I HATE them. A LOT. I only enjoy a couple of their games a little bit like the crash bash ones. But the most reason, I hate $*ny is because they make Nintendo look bad! Today at school I'm like "Man, I really wanna get the Nintendo Revolution, or Wii, or whatever..." and before I get a chance to go on, this kid's like "Dude, no one buys Nintendo anymore, they're obsolite." I was like WTF!?!?!?!?! He was WAY more interested in the PS3, and I have NO CLUE why. Co$t more, has no new upgrades besides hardware (no new features, and ye$ I know that the $tupid OLD SAME TRADITIONAL controller has the motion sensor, but that doesn't count as Nintendo came up with that first!) and, it looks like it will just plain suck. It's huge, for one thing. Plus, they haven't annonced any big titles and you don't fall in love with the $*ny characters as you do with Nintendo.

Then, there's Micro$$$$$oft. If you ask me they do the same thing as $*ny and just take ideas from others (although I believe they were the first to have the "online concept", or was that Sony? I think it was, because when they announced the PS2 internet capabilities was supposed to be the big thing about it). I don't like Micro$$$$$oft, they are almost as bad as $*ny

Sorry for my ranting!

:cool:

[Bottles98]

The Dreamcast had internet play before both of them, I believe.

[Princess J]

Oh, I loved those comercials! I like the one where they're like "Jump, Mario, Jump!" and Mario can't jump high enough to get over something and then they leave the room and he rumps out of the TV screen and drinks milk... classic.

As for $*ny, I HATE them. A LOT. I only enjoy a couple of their games a little bit like the crash bash ones. But the most reason, I hate $*ny is because they make Nintendo look bad! Today at school I'm like "Man, I really wanna get the Nintendo Revolution, or Wii, or whatever..." and before I get a chance to go on, this kid's like "Dude, no one buys Nintendo anymore, they're obsolite." I was like WTF!?!?!?!?! He was WAY more interested in the PS3, and I have NO CLUE why. Co$t more, has no new upgrades besides hardware (no new features, and ye$ I know that the $tupid OLD SAME TRADITIONAL controller has the motion sensor, but that doesn't count as Nintendo came up with that first!) and, it looks like it will just plain suck. It's huge, for one thing. Plus, they haven't annonced any big titles and you don't fall in love with the $*ny characters as you do with Nintendo.

Then, there's Micro$$$$$oft. If you ask me they do the same thing as $*ny and just take ideas from others (although I believe they were the first to have the "online concept", or was that Sony? I think it was, because when they announced the PS2 internet capabilities was supposed to be the big thing about it). I don't like Micro$$$$$oft, they are almost as bad as $*ny

Sorry for my ranting!

:cool:

Now, you can't hate "$*ny" because of its fanboys. Sure, there are those idiots who care only for graphics and raw power in a console, and who couldn't understand the concept of creativity if it walked up and slapped them in the face. That goes for both Sony and Microsoft. But with Nintendo, you'll also get people who are so fanboyishly faithful to Nintendo that they despise everything else and won't try new things. Therefore they fail to see that not everything Sony and Microsoft have ever done is a ripoff, and there are lots of creative and fun games to be found on other consoles too.

$o anyway, I think if people were just more open to all consoles and companies, gamers as a whole would get along a lot better. After all, I can't say I like the big corporate heads who run Nintendo any more than I like the people who run Sony or Microsoft. But I do really like the developers that work so hard on the games I love. And if we all just loved the games themselves, and didn't focus our love or hate on the companies that made the console on which we played them... well, that would be best for everyone! All consoles have their strengths and weaknesses, and they each contribute something to the world of gaming. After all, competition is what fuels innovation! Until that nonexistant day when all the companies come together to make the WiiStation 360, we'll just have to learn to live with, and love, all of them individually.

[Gruntling]

After all, I can't say I like the big corporate heads who run Nintendo any more than I like the people who run Sony or Microsoft.

I don't know about you, but I think Shigeru Miyamoto and Reggie Fils-Aime are all pretty likeable! ;) I can't think of any of Sony or Microsoft's people who have been as well recieved.

[Hakey Wake]

Sony stole Immerison rumble technology and wouldn't license it, so they went to court and lost the case.

They appealed the outcome and lost again.

They appealed once more and for the third time in succession, lost.

I believe they were trying to do to Immersion what they did to the small companly bleem!, when they kept taking bleem! to court (and losing) just to cause bleem! bankruptcy. (bleem! were a small company, and couln't afford all the lawyering costs etc.)

Thankfully Immersion didn't buckle (that was a good day) and that's the reason the PS3 controller lacks a rumble.

[Princess J]

I don't know about you, but I think Shigeru Miyamoto and Reggie Fils-Aime are all pretty likeable! ;) I can't think of any of Sony or Microsoft's people who have been as well recieved.
Well Miyamoto, yeah, but I consider him a developer. I was talking about the people who are just in charge of the company itself, and marketing, and money-making in general. (By the way, I like Miyamoto a lot, but it seriously creeps me out how some people worship him like the Almighty God of video gaming. But I digress.)

Reggie... meh. He's okay, but sometimes it seems like he's just there to attempt to give Nintendo a tough-guy image.

[Hollow Note]

And besides, how many TV shows were made after PS or XBox games? I can think of two off the bat for Nintendo.
"Well excuuuuuuse me, Princess." YEah, it sucked, but hey, it sold for about a season, right?


Off Topic: Check out You Tube for "Zelda CDi" To see some horrible animation that makes you cringe to think that it's an actual game.

[Gold Jinjo]

On a sort of related note, I just thought I'd mention that Peter Moore (http://today.reuters.com/news/newsArticle.aspx?type=technologyNews&storyID=2006-05-11T132519Z_01_N10243836_RTRUKOC_0_US-EXPO-MICROSOFT.xml) rules ;)

This is the kind of respected rivalry between Microsoft and Nintendo that I've always hoped to see.

Although I still think J. Allard is an asshole.

[holyice7]

Erm... why is it that people never seem to realize Nintendo isn't exactly poor? They've been around for well over 20 years -- they're swimming in money too. Nintendo's not going to go bankrupt, Nintendo's income doesn't rely solely on their games... it's stupid and naive to even think this.

Not to mention Nintendo is the only company who actually make a profit on their consoles after making their production costs back, yet Microsoft and Sony barely even make their production costs back :p

Well, perhaps I phrased my post wrong. Certainly Nintendo isn't anywhere near the poorhouse, but they are still first and foremost a game company, and as such are affected much more by industry fulx than either Sony or Microsoft. If there were to be another gaming crash, an unlikely situation I know, big N has the most to lose.

[Zy0n7]

And besides, how many TV shows were made after PS or XBox games? I can think of two off the bat for Nintendo.
"Well excuuuuuuse me, Princess." YEah, it sucked, but hey, it sold for about a season, right?


Off Topic: Check out You Tube for "Zelda CDi" To see some horrible animation that makes you cringe to think that it's an actual game.


If you mean that Zelda game released for the unkown cd console of philips (I think It was from philips but wathever) I have to say it wasn't an imitation, it was licensed by nintendo, but nintendo just gave permission and wasn't the developer. In fact I think they were two games and not one. They horribly sucked of course, just like that console.

[Hakey Wake]

On a sort of related note, I just thought I'd mention that Peter Moore (http://today.reuters.com/news/newsArticle.aspx?type=technologyNews&storyID=2006-05-11T132519Z_01_N10243836_RTRUKOC_0_US-EXPO-MICROSOFT.xml) rules ;)

This is the kind of respected rivalry between Microsoft and Nintendo that I've always hoped to see.

Although I still think J. Allard is an asshole.

Saw that on Gaming-Age, I will throw my support fully behind the Wii60! (It was a conspiracy all along, clearly)