Hey, Banjo Purists

[Adam]

CHECK THIS SHIT OUT
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/vide..._campaign=news

How does that make you feel? And I'm not asking in the badass shooting a guy in the foot saying "Now, how does THAT make you feel?". I'm asking in the therapist kind of "How does that make you FEEL?"

[CaptainWhiteEye]

The difference being one is a spin off, the other is a cannon, direct sequel, mushroom print to the forehead. If nuts and bolts were a spin off, then...plenty of people would have been pissed for waiting so long for just a spin off, but people would not have raged nearly as hard as the reality. I'll admit, i did not give it a fair try..i played it for a total of 20 minutes, but every minute past when that pin head L.O.G. showed up... was in absolute teeth mashing, skull crushing, shoulder clenching agony. The last straw was when i picked up the "Egg gun" , and then was immediately said "Nope." and returned the game to the store the next day.

[Scrubber]

People do not just hate Nuts & Bolts because of the name, believe me.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by CaptainWhiteEye

The difference being one is a spin off, the other is a cannon, direct sequel, mushroom print to the forehead. If nuts and bolts were a spin off, then...plenty of people would have been pissed for waiting so long for just a spin off, but people would not have raged nearly as hard as the reality. I'll admit, i did not give it a fair try..i played it for a total of 20 minutes, but every minute past when that pin head L.O.G. showed up... was in absolute teeth mashing, skull crushing, shoulder clenching agony. The last straw was when i picked up the "Egg gun" , and then was immediately said "Nope." and returned the game to the store the next day.

You...just proved the point of the video. There were tons of people who didn't like N&B simply because of the gameplay, but you like many others hate it because it stars Banjo. That's the point of this video.

[Doorstop]

Quote from the page:

Wow, Jim's not usually wrong.

Here's the thing. When a game takes off in a new direction, the real danger is that people will like it. Case in point:

Final Fantasy decided to branch out and try making an MMO. They made so much money on said MMO that they decided to make their single player games MMO-like too. Now we don't get stand in a line and eskimo box, menu driven, select-em-up JRPGs anymore. The last one was what... Lost Odyssey in 2008?

We're not pissed because they dare to call a driving game Banjo Kazooie, we're pissed because them calling their driving game banjo kazooie means we're probably not going to get Banjo Threeie. Dante being some new person with black hair means that if the new dmc gets popular, we'll never get another game with old dante. New dante may even show up in Muppets VS Capcom or whatever their next crossover fighter is. Old Dante will be gone and we won't get any more of him. Those of us who like Old Dante better are SOL.

So no, radically changing style and tone and genre in the middle is not okay. Start a new IP for that. We need more new IPs anyway.

I think this guy kind of hits the point Jim missed. And it pretty much adequately explains the BK fanbase's problem.

[1UP]

I'm a huge Pokemon fan but I don't get butthurt over games like Conquest or Mystery Dungeon because I know I'm gonna get another traditional Pokemon game at some point. All the different games are always spinoffs and non-canon.

I'm a huge Banjo-Kazooie fan and I do get butthurt over games like Nuts & Bolts because there's a high chance that I won't get to see another traditional Banjo-Kazooie game ever. It was also a canon game and not a spinoff.

Y'know how much rage would occur if Game Freak decided to make Pokemon into a rhythm series? It'd be a million times worse than what happened with Banjo-Kazooie just due to the fanbase and following. It doesn't matter if it ends up being the best damn rhythm series that could ever exist, it doesn't matter if we like the new games, people are still gonna rage because we may never get a turn-based RPG again.

EDIT: I did like N&B, btw. 100%'d it and all that, but as explained above I find that irrelevant.

[Spudfish93]

I believe when a game is part and parcel of a franchise which is synonymous with quality (see Banjo Kazooie), then there is an expectation that a game in that franchise to meet or at least come close to achieving that level of quality.
Nuts and Bolts was not only by utter crap in comparison to it's predecessors, it was not befitting of the franchise's platforming roots, and worse of all, it was canon. Thus resulting in that horrible game staining the franchise even if it does go back to it's original platforming roots.

All said, I believe the name is important to any game because if it is part of a franchise, it should be expected to at least bear some similarity to it's predecessors, and not just be some drastically different game all together with little to no relevance to the older games.
That is why I hate Nuts and Bolts. It uses the title "Banjo Kazooie" to earn more money. It's a cash cow. That game would have worked just as well if not better without the BK characters, but not as many people would buy a game from an un-established franchise, especially one as drastically different as nuts and bolts.

[Breegullbeak]

The quality of the game is a matter of opinion. Reviews were rather positive, but sales were poor. You are letting previous experiences with the franchise set what you believe is a good game. The game was a drastic change, but it was only shit to those who couldn't look at the game without looking at the attached franchise, or sucked at building a decent vehicle.

Now I'm not saying that what Rare did with Banjo was right, but it certainly was not wrong. I would never have even looked at the game or even bought an Xbox if it weren't for them using a previously established character I was aware of.

Now making it part of the main franchise is questionable, but I doubt a spin off would get much more attention then the hand held titles. I know I wouldn't have bothered to make the investment in a new console for a spin-off.

I can see both sides of the argument, but at this point the one side is just complaining about what can no longer be changed, and those complaints are keeping the bear and bird from getting anything more than cameos in Xbox exclusive titles.

[Kaiser]

Wow, Rare uses an midly established name to release a game they thougth it was fun.

I wonder ****ing why they did it, I mean Grabbed by the ghoulies and nonbundle Kameo sold so much, rigth? and the only reason Viva Pinata sold was the cartoon to support it.

Man, I'm glad it was a BK game.

[CaptainWhiteEye]

Originally Posted by Adam

You...just proved the point of the video. There were tons of people who didn't like N&B simply because of the gameplay, but you like many others hate it because it stars Banjo. That's the point of this video.

So by this logic, everything should go with everything so long as the thing being added is goes well with something else. Okay, next up lets reboot the spiderman series except, oh no, he dosnt have super powers, he has..GUNS! Yes, guns, lets hive him Uzi's and AKs out the ass, and have him mow those bank robbers down, **** the civilians that get in the way are his thoughts.


Also, a new lunch is on the menu, around the world instead of serving hotdogs and hamburgers on buns, lets slather them in choclate sauce, whip cream, cherries, nuts, and butter scotch.

Do you get my point now?

[Bahooney]

Originally Posted by CaptainWhiteEye

Do you get my point now?

Mmmnope.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by CaptainWhiteEye

So by this logic, everything should go with everything so long as the thing being added is goes well with something else. Okay, next up lets reboot the spiderman series except, oh no, he dosnt have super powers, he has..GUNS! Yes, guns, lets hive him Uzi's and AKs out the ass, and have him mow those bank robbers down, **** the civilians that get in the way are his thoughts.


Also, a new lunch is on the menu, around the world instead of serving hotdogs and hamburgers on buns, lets slather them in choclate sauce, whip cream, cherries, nuts, and butter scotch.

Do you get my point now?

No. I fact, you just kind of spouted nonsense for a while there. But if I try to go along with what you said, is the Spiderman FPS fun? Are the hamburger/dessert things good? If so, then I don't see that big of a problem.

[Spudfish93]

Originally Posted by Breegullbeak

I can see both sides of the argument, but at this point the one side is just complaining about what can no longer be changed, and those complaints are keeping the bear and bird from getting anything more than cameos in Xbox exclusive titles.

The simple fact is Rare is using Banjo and Kazooie as cash cows. They're using the characters to market the game as opposed to actually creating a fresh IP and letting it be it's own standalone game. Instead they used a drastically new formula in an established franchise and as a result it bombed.
It's like if Nintendo suddenly announced a new star fox game, and upon release we get dance, dance arwing.

My point is they're not creating a title for the IP, they're using the IPs to create the title, therefore putting most of the emphasis on the characters and not the game, and when the style doesn't compliment the characters, we have a clash like this happening.

Originally Posted by Adam

But if I try to go along with what you said, is the Spiderman FPS fun?

It's a problem because the style is way too different, it'll distracting, and it'll be using the Spiderman title to shovel more generic FPS bullshit.

[Walecs]

Originally Posted by Spudfish93

The simple fact is Rare is using Banjo and Kazooie as cash cows. They're using the characters to market the game as opposed to actually creating a fresh IP and letting it be it's own standalone game.

Let's not forget Sonic & Sega All-Stars Racing and Minecraft skins.

[Spudfish93]

Originally Posted by Walecs

Let's not forget Sonic & Sega All-Stars Racing and Minecraft skins.

I'd say that's more of a shoutout to the fans more than anything else.
Mind you, it is ironic that a dying character such as Banjo should go well with a dying franchise such as sonic, right?
ZIIIIIIING.