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The Banjo Kazooie Series General Discussion about the Banjo Kazooie series from the N64 classics to the handheld sequels & new Xbox games.

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  #16  
Old 28th May 2005, 08:44 AM
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ATTENTION TO "COOLBOYMAN" AND "DEVILBOTTLES":

To Coolboyman: - Everybody knows it isn't the actual JRL pipe, although looking at the image I provided in a earlier post it is obviously based off that, which is all anybody is claiming. It is possibly beta (or who knows), so it is obvious all the room which leads off from it wouldn't be there.

I thought at first with the colours and everything "hey? is this in grunty's lair?", especially with the music there. Which is quite bizarre really isn't it? Surely if a beta/test map was created it would yield a few obstacles for the testers to attempt things? Plus you are given hardly any moves and no eggs...

DEVILBOTTLES:

As for pictures, you have pretty much seen it all. Look at Subdrag's picture to see it from a wide shot and the first post to see it from the inside. That really is all there is to it. It looks like the inside of the JRL pipe, although different colours longer and has that opening scene music.

Also you drop in to the blackness Banjo yells and then the jigsaw piece comes on to indicate you are being replaced back to where you came from.
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Last edited by Benjo Koolzooie; 28th May 2005 at 09:03 AM.


  #17  
Old 28th May 2005, 01:59 PM
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It may be a part of the pipe in the room under the Clanker's Cavern entrance room in BK. Since part of Grunty's Lair is still in BT that pipe may be part of a few leftovers from it.

Edit: I changed the word above to under.

Last edited by Klungo; 28th May 2005 at 05:38 PM.


  #18  
Old 28th May 2005, 02:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Klungo
It may be a part of the pipe in the room above the Clanker's Cavern entrance room in BK. Since part of Grunty's Lair is still in BT that pipe may be part of a few leftovers from it.
You read my mind Klungo, I was thinking almost that exact thing.

EDIT: Just noticed this got a mention on the frontpage, pretty cool.
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  #19  
Old 28th May 2005, 05:20 PM
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One: It is obviously based on the JRL inside pipe (or the opposite way around)
Two: What part of Clanker's cavern do you think it resembles exactly? (or could have been used for if you don't think it resembles a part of the cavern itself).
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  #20  
Old 28th May 2005, 05:36 PM
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I was talking about the pipe with the couldron in the room under the entrance to Clanker's Cavern, not a pipe in the level itself. In my last post I said above instead of under. I will edit it now.


  #21  
Old 28th May 2005, 06:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Klungo
I was talking about the pipe with the couldron in the room under the entrance to Clanker's Cavern, not a pipe in the level itself. In my last post I said above instead of under. I will edit it now.
That's what I imemdiately though upon first look, I don't remember there being a pipe like that in BT anywhere, but it's been a long time since i've played it.
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  #22  
Old 28th May 2005, 06:54 PM
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Included: 2 pictures of the Clanker pipes. One from the outside and one inside. It doesn't seem to resemble it much to me?
Attached Images
File Type: jpg pipe1.JPG (56.8 KB, 323 views)
File Type: jpg pipe2.JPG (49.8 KB, 302 views)
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  #23  
Old 28th May 2005, 06:55 PM
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Maybe you used to be able to cross over from Grunty's Industries while the water was still flowing through the pipes.

But I think you can do that even now.


  #24  
Old 28th May 2005, 06:57 PM
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When you first enter the pipe in JRL the water us running, because you need to run through it and press a switch to stop the water flow.
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  #25  
Old 28th May 2005, 06:57 PM
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To me, it looks like a cave behind one of the eyes of the giant likeness of Gruntilda's Lair...

o.o


  #26  
Old 28th May 2005, 07:05 PM
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But why would water be running out of it?
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  #27  
Old 28th May 2005, 07:38 PM
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Maybe in Beta BT you could travel to various sections in Grunty's Lair via the other worlds. Maybe, before Grunty's Industries exsisted (or before they came up with the Pig objective) they had Grunty's Lair connect with JRL, and perhaps even other level. That would explain the textures, the music, the "Entrance" words below "Grunty's Lair".


  #28  
Old 28th May 2005, 07:48 PM
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Nothing special, but interesting how once you pause the game in the beta pipe that only the options: "Return the game", "View totals" and "Save and quit" are there, along with icons for red/gold feathers, blue eggs, jiggies and notes. Almost like on BK's pause menu. (No objects and items menu, etc) and also viewing the totals you see the timer and it classes you as in Spiral mountain.
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  #29  
Old 28th May 2005, 07:55 PM
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Anyone else wondering why it works on an emulator but not the actual pak? That's been bugging me since I first read about the find.
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  #30  
Old 28th May 2005, 08:02 PM
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It's absolutely definitely modelled off of the Jolly Roger's Lagoon pipe. Or vice versa, but that seems unlikely due to a number of reasons. Here's my proof.

First of all, here's an enlarged image of the pipe.
Large-scale Pipeline Picture

Right, after having a look at it, I decided to compare it with the inside of the JRL pipe that's actually used in the game. There are absolutely huge differences between the two. Firstly, the textures are completely different. Secondly, the version of the pipe that's used is much, much smaller (both in length and in girth). There's a mesh gate blocking you from reaching the very back of the pipe in the version now used. The sewage flows much quicker in the beta version. The small hole where you normally enter the pipe from JRL is actually modelled in a different way in both versions. There's an exit near the back, and most notably, a complete lack of that eerie glow seen in the beta version. Here are a few screenshots to show the similarities and differences between the two.

The back of the pipe
The back of the beta pipe

The front of the pipe
The front of the beta pipe

The side exit of the pipe
The side of the beta pipe where that side exit should be

The drop-off of the pipe
The drop-off of the beta pipe

The entrance of the pipe
The entrance of the beta pipe

The pipe with Bottles' Revenge active
The beta pipe with Bottles' Revenge active

So, you can see that both pipes are very similar, but also have obvious differences. If you need a reference to see exactly how much bigger the beta pipe is compared to the current one, the Bottles' Revenge pictures show that well. Oh, speaking of Bottles' Revenge, it deactivates itself here. Anyway, now to compare it with the outside of the JRL pipe.

The JRL pipe exterior

Aha! Now this is more like it. Though smaller than the beta pipe, it does have the same metal texture, and seems to have the same shape too. Using Banjo's bee transformation, I tried to get up inside the pipe to see if it had a similar shape. Unfortunately, it's sealed off at the base, although there is a small inner rim in the pipe (which is shaped suspiciously similar to the beta pipe's fall-off), which you can land on.

Inside the pipe's exterior model
Another shot inside the pipe's exterior model

Then, using Paint Shop Pro, I decided to paste an image of the beta pipeline over an image of the pipe's exterior. A perfect fit! Well, after a bit of rescaling, but the dimensions are still an absolutely perfect fit, even down to the rip of the entrance.

The definitive proof

So, as you can see, it seems the interior of the JRL pipe was originally modelled off of the exterior. It also used to lead to a different part of Grunty's Industries (considering there's no exit at the back, and the mesh is missing, letting you get to the back, which would seem like an alternate exit). Also, instead of pumping sewage into JRL, it used to pump what seems to be radioactive waste (this would explain the three-armed piglet a bit better). It's not surprising that the enterior was bigger than the interior, either, as Rareware commonly make proportionality errors (Mumbo's Hut, for instance). Judging by the differences between the current and beta pipe interiors, it seems the current one is actually modelled from scratch (you can tell by the differences in the shape and size of the entrance to it). Why exactly it was remodelled, retextured, and resized is a mystery, though.

Hope that's of some interest.

EDIT: Actually, don't most of the warp values have titles in the memory? Does this one have one?
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Last edited by Banjo-Fella; 28th May 2005 at 08:04 PM.


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