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-   -   SNS update: I think I know which 4 of the 6 eggs we are supposed to get (https://www.therwp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1287)

hatrickpatrick 8th June 2006 11:30 PM

Ok well I still don't know if those PAL conversions work or not, I haven't got a chance to try them out yet (Might actually do that in the next few minutes)

Yeah I'll post the demo control codes I've found tomorrow but I've got to warn you they're a nightmare. There's an entire line of digits which relate to it, for example setting the 2nd one to 01 will do something different depending on what the FIRST one is set to. It's ridiculously complicated. I'll post the addresses tomorrow so we can see what we'll make of them...

hatrickpatrick 9th June 2006 01:05 AM

Yeah it looks like the PAL conversions will be fine, I just tried the Capn' Blubber thing in TTC and it worked perfectly. Strange... The digit changed to 0E when it was over, I guess I'll have to look into it in more detail tomorrow...

I wonder then, is it one digit per cutscene? Like, 02 was blubber, would there be a different digit for, say, the sandcastle draining out?

DavidNel 9th June 2006 02:37 AM

O_O. Wow... I just got a gameshark, and I think being able to float is cool...

Oh, and IF you didn't know this, if you float to high in some areas the game restarts you at the entrance you came to. If you could find a way to stop the game from restarting you, you might find something that Rare didn't want you to.

I'm totally incompetent when it comes to hacking, so if someone that isn't completely busy with this new burst of info please try it.

I'm new to the RWP, but I think something big is about to happen >_>

Bottles98 9th June 2006 02:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DavidNel
O_O. Wow... I just got a gameshark, and I think being able to float is cool...

Oh, and IF you didn't know this, if you float to high in some areas the game restarts you at the entrance you came to.

Already known or a LONG time. Sorry. In fact, I got told this back in 2001 when I first posted about it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DavidNel
If you could find a way to stop the game from restarting you, you might find something that Rare didn't want you to.

I'm totally incompetent when it comes to hacking, so if someone that isn't completely busy with this new burst of info please try it.

Doubt it. Hell, is that even possible? And as I said, not a new burst of info. Of course you're new, but don't go thinking every discovery you make is zOMG HUEG. Oh, wait...

Quote:

Originally Posted by DavidNel
I'm new to the RWP, but I think something big is about to happen >_>

Too late.

Also, don't take this post the wrong way. I merely corrected you as I love doing.

Also: topic has gone on far too long.

DavidNel 9th June 2006 03:16 AM

I know the floaty thing was found because it was preloaded in my shark, lol. Just some random input. Don't think it will lead anywhere, but the only way I can seem to help is to try pointing out obvious things that some may have overlooked.

slaphappy 9th June 2006 03:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hatrickpatrick
Strange... The digit changed to 0E when it was over, I guess I'll have to look into it in more detail tomorrow...

My gut feeling is this activator works on a bit level much like the secrets address does. You can put in 02 or 03, both indicating the second bit is what the activator fires from. Also, the entire word (80367000 ntsc) is set to 0000000E during the cutscene and then 8000000E when the cutscene is complete.

So before/during/after the cutscene what we have is:

(if you use activator 02)
0000 .. 0010
0000 .. 1110
1000 .. 1110

(if you use activator 03)
0000 .. 0011
0000 .. 1111 - you get 0F instead of 0E
1000 .. 1111

We'll need to examine a lot more data to see if this proves to be true and all the bits have significance for the cutscenes.

mikesgm6 9th June 2006 04:05 AM

OFFTOPIC kinda
 
This topic has been pretty big O.o I think we should have an IRC chat don't you?
do we still? if not then let's try keeping one on a free host where an rwp user is always the OP

irc.us.efnet.info::6667
channel: #rwp

ya... sorry for the off topicness again oh and my walk through walls code dont work for ntsc

to next post slaphappy...(trying to stay on topic >_>)
why do we need pal aswell? we should all use ntsc and wow nice finds

slaphappy 9th June 2006 04:06 AM

Not to divert from the cutscene discussion, but here is the Activator/Action State Mapping I've been working on. You never no what's going to help with what, so here goes...

BK Activator
0037E8F4 (NTSC)
8037F2C4 (PAL)

00 - no effect
01 - Load Level: Action State set to 3
02 - Halt State (processor still executing): Action State set to 2
03 - Bad Address: Action State set to 2
04 - no effect
05 - no effect
06 - Load Level in Demo Mode: Action State set to 7
07 - Load Level: Action State set to 8
08 - Load Level in Demo Mode: Action State set to 9
09 - Load Level: Resets Game Totals to Zero: Action State set to 3
0A - Load Level: Loads Totals: Action State set to 3
0B - Load Level: Does not alter action state
0C - Load Level: Action State set to A
0D - no effect
0E - no effect
0F - no effect


BK Action States
0037E8E4 (NTSC)
0037F2B4 (PAL)

00 - Banjo Playable, Start disabled
01 - Banjo Playable, Start disabled
02 - Banjo Playable, Character Message Actions Halted
03 - Banjo Fully Playable
04 - Items Menu Overlay
05 - Banjo Playable, Takes No Damage, No Collection Action, Start disabled
06 - Banjo controlled by AI, New Level Timer Disabled
07 - Banjo controlled by AI, Demo Timer Active
08 - Bottle's Game Overlay, Banjo controlled by AI
09 - Banjo controlled by AI, takes no damage, Exiting Level Disabled, start disabled
0A - Mumbo's Hand Overlay, Banjo controlled by AI, start disabled
0B - no effect
0C - no effect
0D - no effect
0E - no effect
0F - no effect

Some of these I find very interesting and figuring out why the developers needed them is quite a task. For example, Activator 0B seems useless, but is absolutly necessary for the way the secrets are shown at the end. The activator 0C is fired when Mumbo's hand appears. BK gets action state 0A which is puts the CPU in control of him. He swims up to SI and goes in. The level is changed using 0B which leaves the action state unchanged allowing the CPU script to continue uninterrupted. That is the only place I can find that the CPU controlled Banjo actually changes level.

So, here's the kicker, and is very speculative. Repeat, unproven and very speculative. I find activator 02 and 03 quite strange. 02 has the appearance of being a freeze, but it's not. Certain disabling addresses are set and the processor continues to run, not frozen, in a looping state. To me it could possibly be the activator for the Write Data section of SNS. Which would lead me to believe activator 03 could be the Read Data counterpart. I may be completely off base about the both of these but it is not outside the realm of possibility. They are there for some reason. I'm looking into these to see what I can find.

thatguyjr 9th June 2006 08:26 AM

When is Action 05 used?

I can't recall a time that the AI controlled Banjo ever needed to run through an item w/o picking it up.
2nd edit: It wouldn't have been for invincibility, because it lets you run through items. Thats the strange part. Maybe they thought collection and collision coding or something like that would be different between games, and reserved that mode just in case?

Edit: Wait a Minute!!!! I just got part of what you were saying! Activator 02 might very well be the "Stop" of SNS that we pull out the cartridge for! I don't understand what you mean by write and read, in the sense that I don't know which is for giving information and which one accepts information, but 02 seems to me to look sort of like a stand by, for us to insert the next game. Does anyone have a GS or a Pro Action Reply and their N64 nearby? If so, I would try to pull out BK and put in BT after using activator 02, just to see what happens. Who knows, it may actually do something. Unfortunately my N64 is a little...peed on...right now, otherwise, I'd do it myself once you all make NTSC code versions. Keep up the Great work!

Edit 3: Actually, the fact that 02 and 03 activators may deal with SNS directly also can help explain why 04 and 05 have no current effect: They may be open with the purpose of sending back data to BT (or DK) in a specific, at that point in time, undecided way.

hatrickpatrick 9th June 2006 09:12 AM

O_o this is unusual... Maybe there was going to be an invincibility cheat we didn't know about?


I can confirm that 0A is the secret mode state. On 0A, the CPU controls banjo as he's controlled in the secret cutscenes, I think. It, while mumbo's talking before the cutscene, you set it to 0A, the secret pics start straight away, whether you have 100 jiggies or not.

I'll look into this more today

hatrickpatrick 9th June 2006 12:07 PM

Ok well I tried these in Wozza's cave and found some interesting results:
Use the partial activator for these. NTSC: 80367003, PAL 80367483.
01: Ice wall gone, banjo disappears.
02: Same as above
03: Banjo disappears
04: Banjo disappears.

Interestingly, the Ice wall does NOT stay removed after using that code, you have to use the instant warp/scene reload to get it working again and when you do, the ice wall is still there. So it looks like that cutscene only SHOWS you the open doorway, it doesn't alter the SnS address at all.
I didn't get any further than 04, the game crashed a few minutes after reloading the scene so I never got to try out the others...

slaphappy 9th June 2006 03:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikesgm6
why do we need pal aswell? we should all use ntsc and wow nice finds

We don't "need" the PAL addresses, it's just nice in a common courtesy sort of way. On the flip side, someone with a PAL address doesn't "need" to give the NTSC. It just keeps everyone involved if they have the codes they are used to working with. And more eyes looking = more potential progress.

Quote:

Originally Posted by thatguyjr
Maybe they thought collection and collision coding or something like that would be different between games, and reserved that mode just in case?

I'm being overly optimistic, but maybe there is a seperate function for displaying text when in that action state. Unlikely, I know, but it was my first thought. So, the collecting ice key and 2 egg messages we've seen would be a default of sorts. If you were shown something in BT about the Ice Key and Eggs, and come back to BK, I'd half expect a "Let's get this back over there and use it" type of message. It would explain why we do not see 6 egg messages. But again, I'm only speculating.

Quote:

Originally Posted by hatrickpatrick
Banjo disappears.

Tha's what I was talking about, and you can get him back with the code I posted earlier. Keeps you from having to rewarp back.

hatrickpatrick 9th June 2006 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikesgm6
why do we need pal aswell? we should all use ntsc and wow nice finds

It'd be cool if they were the same, but unfortunately NTSC codes just won't work on a PAL n64 >_<

BanjoPL 9th June 2006 04:27 PM

Wow guys!Maybe now you are very close to find 8-year secret...maybe...
Can you noticed that Advent track is very familiar to SNS music in secret areas?

thatguyjr 9th June 2006 06:05 PM

So does anyone have an actual N64 and Pro Action Reply so they can test out that 02 activator? Or would the PAR get in the way of a hot swop?
If anyone knows of a way to emulate a cartridge switch in PJ64, tell me, and I'll give it a try.

Slaphappy, is there a way to see if similar activators are in either BT or DK 64 (since thats believed to once have held a beta SNS)?

hatrickpatrick 9th June 2006 06:58 PM

I have an n64 and an ARPro, but the problem is that if you take out a game while the n64 is one, and hot swap, it may, indeed work. However, if you try to take out a game while the ARP is on, the AR itself will crash, which is no use >_<

ARs require keycodes and must be on codes, and BT/BK have different keycodes. So using the actual AR is, unfortunately, out the window.

thatguyjr 9th June 2006 07:01 PM

Too bad there isn't a way to emulate a hot swap. :-(

mikesgm6 9th June 2006 07:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hatrickpatrick
It'd be cool if they were the same, but unfortunately NTSC codes just won't work on a PAL n64 >_<

Either I didn't writeit corrrectly or you didn't read it correctly...
I meant we should all use the ntsc rom insead of PAL O.o

Ice Lightning 9th June 2006 07:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikesgm6
Either I didn't writeit corrrectly or you didn't read it correctly...
I meant we should all use the ntsc rom insead of PAL O.o

But if hatrick for example is hacking on an actual cartridge then it would have to be done in PAL due to him living in Ireland.

Anyway it just makes it a lot easier if you find the same code for each version at the same time rather than getting really far into hacking the NTSC rom and then after it's finished go back and do the whole of the PAL version.

hatrickpatrick 9th June 2006 07:50 PM

Quote:

Either I didn't writeit corrrectly or you didn't read it correctly...
I meant we should all use the ntsc rom insead of PAL O.o
Ah, well that would, indeed, be brilliant, but hacking roms is a complete and utter nightmare, unless you can use nemu64 and it doesn't seem to agree with my PC...

Found a few more cutscene digits which I'll post later on...

Campusanis 9th June 2006 09:11 PM

I don't want to break up the really interesting conversation, but just to get this straight for once. "Hacking" means observing certain addresses in certain situations (I hate it when I sound so stupid, but I can't help it)?

hatrickpatrick 9th June 2006 11:13 PM

Found some more digits:
MMM Cellar
01: All barrels open, banjo disappeared, everything slo motion. XBarrel open but not active (It's open but all you can see it blackness)
02 & 03: Same as above.

DemyGod 9th June 2006 11:16 PM

Lmao Wow we really found out ALOT of codes.

hatrickpatrick 9th June 2006 11:34 PM

"Hacking" basically means anything which involves manipulating the game's memory... Can be anything from finding a quantity code for extra lives to finding activators and so on (like we are now).

slaphappy 10th June 2006 03:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hatrickpatrick
everything slo motion

That seems to happen a lot with the activator. Like it's continually calling some function instead of calling it just once. In MM the jiggy cutscene goes in slow motion for about 1/3 of the time, and then runs at normal speed. Very odd, but it must be happening for a reason. Again, there's more to this than just the activator we have.

hatrickpatrick 10th June 2006 07:46 AM

There must be another address controlling the speed, then, I'll have a look latet in but that one could take a while to find...
Of course, it could just be that the game is lagging for some reason as well, although that's fairly unlikely, BK rarely lags atr all. I'll look into it later...

DemyGod 10th June 2006 04:28 PM

Whouldn't it be lagging because your making the game do stuff it's not suppose to do. Like turning cut-scenes in slow motion.

hatrickpatrick 10th June 2006 05:21 PM

Well I suppose that COULD be the reason, but I can safely tell you that since I started hacking I've been making BK do a LOT of things it isn't supposed to, this is the first time I've seen the slow motion

pokemaster252 11th June 2006 01:07 AM

HEY GUYZ WATS GOIN ON IN DIS TOPIK? :) :) :)

Heh, just kidding, I'm not that type of person.

Hello everyone. I just got through reading the whole topic! It was a tedious, yet fun and interesting, task. Strange, I know. Just like me.

Anyway, if I can be of any help, please, by all means, ask. I've been working on getting more familiar with the Gameshark (I have it along with my launch N64 and games, including BK and BT), and I'm making... satisfactory progress on the ROMs. You see, I'm mainly a Genesis and SNES hacker, with more experience in the former. So while I do understand all the talk about bits, bytes, hex, and all the other universal game hacking vocabulary, I have a rather minimal understanding of the N64 scene. But like I said before, I'd be happy to work in both the game itself and in memory and hex editors. It'd be a suspenseful, as well as educational, experience.

But getting out of the more technical mumbo jumbo (no pun intended), I have a theory (well, two) as to how SNS was going to work. It was mentioned before, but I thought I'd bring it up again. Perhaps Tooie's abilities would be used to open BK's secret areas. For example, using grenade eggs to destroy the X barrel in MMM; using Mumbo's magic to make Sharkfood Isle rise.

That was my more realistic theory. Here's another that's a bit more outlandish: Bottles' Revenge mode could be the key to opening up something in Tooie (maybe RSA or something else). Reason? You get to control baddies, each with DIFFERENT ABILITIES. Who knows, you might have to pound something with the common green guy's (sorry, forgot the name) pound. Or even the guys with the hammers in Witchyworld. The possibilities are endless. The reason we haven't been finding anything might be because we're limiting ourselves to the bear and bird. I'm probably just blindly speculating right now, but who isn't at this point? It never hurts to lay your thoughts out on the table.

And finally, I'd like to congratulate everyone who's made breakthroughs, big or small, in this topic, especially hatrickpatrick (I think I remember you from GameFAQs) and slaphappy. I hope to make a name for myself too.

And well, that's it. *Runs* *Is sniped*

LaorBR 11th June 2006 01:28 AM

Nice first post. =)
Quote:

Perhaps Tooie's abilities would be used to open BK's secret areas. For example, using grenade eggs to destroy the X barrel in MMM; using Mumbo's magic to make Sharkfood Isle rise.
The problem is, unless the game used some kind of lock-on™ technology, (and this supposition already got denied by Rare) this is impossible.
Because the Banjo-Tooie moves simply don't exist in Kazooie.

"Learning" the moves thru hot swapping is also impossible: a move require many lines of code to work. Ya know, that programers' stuff.
All this code can't be transferred from one game to another, it's way too much data to be stored.
Also, BK gameplay is hard-coded. Just like when you burn a CD you are unable to change its contents forever. You can change how fast Banjo moves, how high he jumps, etc.
But adding/changing/deleting stuff is impossible.

Therefore it's impossible to control mumbo, use grenade eggs, grab to ledges or use any other Tooie skill in Banjo-Kazooie. =(

pokemaster252 11th June 2006 01:34 AM

Oh yeah, forgot about the lockon being denied... did they ever specifically reference the 64DD? That could have been it. Tooie could then just read Kazooie's map data and you could get the items that way. After you got done with that, you'd have the eggs in Tooie and Kazooie, but all that Kazooie cart would know is that the areas were opened and you got the items. Hence the lack of cutscenes for them so far.

Of course, I'm probably wrong, just as I am with a lot of other things... this is probably a lot more complicated than creating new zones in Sonic the Hedgehog 2...

LaorBR 11th June 2006 01:49 AM

Creating new zones with SONed is indeed tedious. And everybody will complain about how much your zone sucks if you don't do custom art and ASM programing anyway. Meh.
Well, I recall the scribes guy saying some time ago that Tooie was always planned to be a cartridge game.

pokemaster252 11th June 2006 01:59 AM

Oh, it was? Ok, that theory = debunked.

But anyway, about the SonED thing, yeah, it's tedious, but I used to use pure hex to do stuff to my hacks before switching to graphical utilities. Either way, nice to see someone else who's done it. :)

LaorBR 11th June 2006 02:10 AM

Humm, regarding your 64DD/Lock-on question...
I found a link to that old scribes... and nope, he doesn't say anything about the 64DD at all.
Here's a link
XD
My mistake.

pokemaster252 11th June 2006 02:18 AM

I still don't think the 64DD thing is possible though, unless DK64, which supposedly was part of the Stop N Swop picture, was made as a DD game.

Unless, of course, the ice key and Fungus Forest both being in BK and DK at one point or another was part of a weird crossover completely independent of SNS.

Whatever it is, we're not getting anywhere with blind speculation. Hatrick or slaphappy, any updates? Not to rush you or anything.

The Jinjo Jinjo 11th June 2006 03:26 AM

DK64 was intended to be for the 64DD if I recall. But we all know what happened with that... o-O

pokemaster252 11th June 2006 05:02 AM

Are you just referring to the fact that it ended up on cartridge because the 64DD flopped? Or something else?

Theguyoverthere 12th June 2006 01:47 AM

Sorry to say something totally different, but:

Has anyone seen the GFF question about "Do you know where you have been?" then it shows you a picture of the X barrel in MMM? I just think that might be a little more than just a coincidence... And when i was playing i had all my SnS erased from Gameshark. I wonder if someone HAD entered the SnS code, if the X barrel would have not been there in the picture? Cause the picture was a perfect close up of the X barrel, i find that odd.

Go_Nosis 12th June 2006 02:06 AM

Guys! Guys! My friend found a pic on the internet I really think you need to see..

http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f1...o_evilbott.jpg

That's a number guys. On a red egg. Number 6. It's in GbtG.

Anyone have this game and an XBOX? if so, start searching. Please. In case there are more pictures of eggs with numbers.

This could mean a pattern, a sequence, it could be everything we need. I'm still scouring BK to no avail, but when i was sent this, i was thoroughly shocked. cmon guys, someone give this a shot. I hate to be the one to ask people to test my theory, but I can't do this one.

Anyone who checks it out for me will win my gratitude. Lame prize, I know.. But we should all do our parts here, right? So let's work together. Someone, anyone, PLEASE check this out!

mikesgm6 12th June 2006 02:07 AM

Woah what game is GbtG O.o
Rare sure knew what they were doing.. If it was released after it was found its probably a token of appreciation :D

oh yeah grabbed by the gouhlies


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