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-   -   SNS update: I think I know which 4 of the 6 eggs we are supposed to get (https://www.therwp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1287)

ohkathewolf 15th May 2006 11:17 PM

wellfor starters like I said the text Jungle was following every areas text, IE beach Jungle, mountin Jungle, snow Jungle, ect

mabey some of the secret level is hidden in every level

slaphappy 16th May 2006 11:15 PM

Let me pose a different idea regarding how SNS may be implemented. A theory that fits certain facts. Either by Hot or Cold Swapping, memory pak, 64DD, or by magic for all it matters, some memory addresses must be set for the BK code to react. The BK code must recognize them and go from there.

We know the items/secret areas are centered around memory location 00283400 (ntfs). I worked out the bit mapping for the secret items/area memory address. Not sure if this has been done before, values clearly have been mentioned, but this is at the bit level.

Memory: 00283400
Value: ABCD

A
1234 (bits)

B
1234 (bits)

C
1234 (bits)

D
1234 (bits)

A1 = NABNUTS EGG Available
A2 = CAPTAINS EGG Available
A3 = LOGOS EGG Available
A4 = DESERT DOOR Open

B1 = SHARKFOOD ISLAND Raised
B2 = XBARRELL Open
B3 = ICE CAVE Open
B4 = YELLOW EGG Collected

C1 = RED EGG Collected
C2 = GREEN EGG Collected
C3 = BLUE EGG Collected
C4 = PINK EGG Collected

D1 = TURQUOIE EGG Collected
D2 = ICE KEY Collected
D3 = unknown
D4 = unknown

Just set the bits of what you need and you're good to go. If you want the Yellow and Blue Eggs and Sharkfood Island rasied, use 80283400 0920 (0000 1001 0010 0000). This should help if people are still working on the 4 egg and ice key theory.

So, with this done, I'm trying to back trace through the code execution (what a pain) to see what causes 00283400 to be set. If you preset the address with a value before game launch, your value is cleared out, then what was saved during prior gameplay is loaded in. Great, fair enough. BK then launches the intro Banjo playing scene. You hit Start and you go to the Demo. Prior to the Demo launching is where it gets odd, the address is modified, bit by bit. First A1 is set, then B4 removed (the yellow egg pairing), then A2/C1, A3/C2, and so forth until all eggs are removed and all areas opened, pair by pair. So one has to wonder why the secret areas are opened during the Demo. Press start and you go to the game selection screen, with the memory address set back to what it should be.


This points to a potentially interesting possibility. I think Secret Items collection may actually happen outside of game play. When you hit start, BK may launch you to the an area to collect the item that BT/DK64 set as available.

Things that point me in that direction:

1. The secret areas being forced open during the Demo. Why bother, it's just the Demo?

2. You cannot get to gameplay without going through the Demo. I never really noticed that before. In BK you hit start and go the the Demo, not to the game selection. BT doesn't do that. If you let the opening scene cycle to the end, then it should go to the Demo. Why the double start?

3. Secret Items are saved to all three game states, or more likely to an area outside the game states. So if you collect the Ice Key in the Demo area, you will see it collected in all 3 games. This has always been a thorn issue to me, but this theory would make some sense of it.


At the moment it's only a possibility and I'll continue to work at it. There are some interesting activators that may lead to something or may lead to nothing. Scene Mod with trigger value 0006 or 0008 launches a scene in the Demo mode. They set different screen action values, 0007 and 0009 respectively, which I haven't quite figured out yet.

I'll let you know if I make more progress with this.

PVXTanken 17th May 2006 12:49 AM

1. Maybe Rareware got lazy and didn't bother closing the values thus restricting access to the secret areas. After all, you can't really play without going to the stage select screen, and even if you could, I'd bet that the values would reset as soon as the gameplay was started.

2. Rare got feedback saying people didn't like the demo and they wanted to get to gameplay. Also, you couldn't go to the file select without seeing the demo in DK64 as well.

3. SNS was not finished production, the items were probably going to be programmed to one file after collected (at least that's what I always thought.)

I'm not trying to condratict you, and I think your theory is a very good one. I'm just stating other possibilities.

maypep_necro 17th May 2006 02:29 AM

I'm with you too! I just wanna know what is D3 and D4. And what do you mean by ''Demo'' ?

slaphappy 17th May 2006 03:32 AM

Feel free to condratict me and challenge my assumptions. That's how progress is made.

Quote:

Originally Posted by PVXTanken
1. Maybe Rareware got lazy and didn't bother closing the values thus restricting access to the secret areas. After all, you can't really play without going to the stage select screen, and even if you could, I'd bet that the values would reset as soon as the gameplay was started.

From my perspective, Rare didn't get lazy. Prior to launching the demo, a set of functions are called that open an area and then remove it's corresponding item. And after leaving the demo, prior to the game selection screen, functions are called to put them back in place. If it were trivial, and I was lazy, I would just move the address value to a register or push it on the stack and set the memory to FE00. Then move the original value back when I'm done. That is not what's going on. What exactly is happening I'm not so sure yet. I can tell you there are evaluations item by item happening. Unless of course the C++ compiler they used generated incredibly inefficient assembler code.

There are other strange things that happen when you change the value of that memory address during different write breakpoints following inital ROM startup, but I haven't even begun the work needed to decipher that.

---------------------------

Demo is the part of the game that Banjo is running around control by AI. When you Press Start, it goes into the demo.

---------------------------

thatguyjr 17th May 2006 05:10 AM

Well, that is very good, at least seemingly new information. Let me see if I understand it right...
The game stores eggs outside of a game file, possibly so that you can access the eggs and key at the same time as the demo would playin game, during SNS. So it seems like the game would let you go straight to the secrets after swapping cartridges, and allow you to play in the demo.
What I would like to know, is exactly (like intial on screen, or right when the demo starts) when the secrets open and close, or if they are open in all cutscenes. What are the similarities for with the demo, and the ending scenes where they show us the eggs and keys. Perhaps the demo is open like this so that the end of the game works.

GameandWatch33 17th May 2006 05:12 PM

Very good work guys. I can use some of this stuff with the stuff that I am working with. This should help tremendously.

slaphappy 17th May 2006 05:42 PM

It stores it outside the game file or to all three game files. I speculate the first, outside. You can Scene Mod to a secret item area with Trigger 06 or 08 and the item memory state will remain unchanged. Take control of Banjo and collect the Egg and it is collected for all 3 games, even though you are playing outside a game state. You'll get FE00 + whatever item you collect saved on item collection.

The end game 100 jiggies cutscene they are forced open only when Mumbo's hand comes down showing the picture. When his hand comes up, they are set back to what you had collected. It is the same item pair comparisons. But for the other cutscenes it appears unaffected. It makes sense for the end game scene, but not for the demo.

maypep_necro 17th May 2006 08:52 PM

What about the D3 and D4 item? What are they?

slaphappy 17th May 2006 09:54 PM

D3 and D4 are two trailiing bits that seem to have no use or don't indicate anything. The functions don't clear those bits, so if you set them prior to the demo, you'll get FE03 instead of FE00. They may have had a use at some time, or maybe they are used for something we haven't uncovered.

DemyGod 17th May 2006 10:01 PM

They probally lead to something, but something unknown.

ChillyDark 17th May 2006 10:37 PM

Congrats Slaphappy, you might have the answer to SNS there, right in the open.
I bet the next dicovery is going to be something along the lines of FF (maybe).

icegod 17th May 2006 11:33 PM

You prob allready knew this, but if you use a code to take control of the opening demo, you can go to Wozza's cave and he won't be there.

maypep_necro 18th May 2006 12:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slaphappy
D3 and D4 are two trailiing bits that seem to have no use or don't indicate anything. The functions don't clear those bits, so if you set them prior to the demo, you'll get FE03 instead of FE00. They may have had a use at some time, or maybe they are used for something we haven't uncovered.


Can you try to find it please? Maybe SnS Prizes.

*Off-topic: Look, a cool video of Banjo-Kazooie Comercial. Funny too. (In french so you might don't understand) http://captainchester.free.fr/Site%2...20pub%20fr.avi

Theguyoverthere 18th May 2006 01:49 AM

Err... that was Banjo-TOOIE's commercial, although I'd really like to see BK's one. And yes, that WAS VERY OFF TOPIC :)

Anyway, this is some cool stuff right here. Maybe if slaphappy teamed up with Hatrick we might discover SnS (or what's left of it) Oh, and can someone give me the code to play in the demo? And to play in the end "demo" where it shows BK running to their house?


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