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-   -   SNS update: I think I know which 4 of the 6 eggs we are supposed to get (https://www.therwp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1287)

hatrickpatrick 8th June 2006 11:30 PM

Ok well I still don't know if those PAL conversions work or not, I haven't got a chance to try them out yet (Might actually do that in the next few minutes)

Yeah I'll post the demo control codes I've found tomorrow but I've got to warn you they're a nightmare. There's an entire line of digits which relate to it, for example setting the 2nd one to 01 will do something different depending on what the FIRST one is set to. It's ridiculously complicated. I'll post the addresses tomorrow so we can see what we'll make of them...

hatrickpatrick 9th June 2006 01:05 AM

Yeah it looks like the PAL conversions will be fine, I just tried the Capn' Blubber thing in TTC and it worked perfectly. Strange... The digit changed to 0E when it was over, I guess I'll have to look into it in more detail tomorrow...

I wonder then, is it one digit per cutscene? Like, 02 was blubber, would there be a different digit for, say, the sandcastle draining out?

DavidNel 9th June 2006 02:37 AM

O_O. Wow... I just got a gameshark, and I think being able to float is cool...

Oh, and IF you didn't know this, if you float to high in some areas the game restarts you at the entrance you came to. If you could find a way to stop the game from restarting you, you might find something that Rare didn't want you to.

I'm totally incompetent when it comes to hacking, so if someone that isn't completely busy with this new burst of info please try it.

I'm new to the RWP, but I think something big is about to happen >_>

Bottles98 9th June 2006 02:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DavidNel
O_O. Wow... I just got a gameshark, and I think being able to float is cool...

Oh, and IF you didn't know this, if you float to high in some areas the game restarts you at the entrance you came to.

Already known or a LONG time. Sorry. In fact, I got told this back in 2001 when I first posted about it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DavidNel
If you could find a way to stop the game from restarting you, you might find something that Rare didn't want you to.

I'm totally incompetent when it comes to hacking, so if someone that isn't completely busy with this new burst of info please try it.

Doubt it. Hell, is that even possible? And as I said, not a new burst of info. Of course you're new, but don't go thinking every discovery you make is zOMG HUEG. Oh, wait...

Quote:

Originally Posted by DavidNel
I'm new to the RWP, but I think something big is about to happen >_>

Too late.

Also, don't take this post the wrong way. I merely corrected you as I love doing.

Also: topic has gone on far too long.

DavidNel 9th June 2006 03:16 AM

I know the floaty thing was found because it was preloaded in my shark, lol. Just some random input. Don't think it will lead anywhere, but the only way I can seem to help is to try pointing out obvious things that some may have overlooked.

slaphappy 9th June 2006 03:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hatrickpatrick
Strange... The digit changed to 0E when it was over, I guess I'll have to look into it in more detail tomorrow...

My gut feeling is this activator works on a bit level much like the secrets address does. You can put in 02 or 03, both indicating the second bit is what the activator fires from. Also, the entire word (80367000 ntsc) is set to 0000000E during the cutscene and then 8000000E when the cutscene is complete.

So before/during/after the cutscene what we have is:

(if you use activator 02)
0000 .. 0010
0000 .. 1110
1000 .. 1110

(if you use activator 03)
0000 .. 0011
0000 .. 1111 - you get 0F instead of 0E
1000 .. 1111

We'll need to examine a lot more data to see if this proves to be true and all the bits have significance for the cutscenes.

mikesgm6 9th June 2006 04:05 AM

OFFTOPIC kinda
 
This topic has been pretty big O.o I think we should have an IRC chat don't you?
do we still? if not then let's try keeping one on a free host where an rwp user is always the OP

irc.us.efnet.info::6667
channel: #rwp

ya... sorry for the off topicness again oh and my walk through walls code dont work for ntsc

to next post slaphappy...(trying to stay on topic >_>)
why do we need pal aswell? we should all use ntsc and wow nice finds

slaphappy 9th June 2006 04:06 AM

Not to divert from the cutscene discussion, but here is the Activator/Action State Mapping I've been working on. You never no what's going to help with what, so here goes...

BK Activator
0037E8F4 (NTSC)
8037F2C4 (PAL)

00 - no effect
01 - Load Level: Action State set to 3
02 - Halt State (processor still executing): Action State set to 2
03 - Bad Address: Action State set to 2
04 - no effect
05 - no effect
06 - Load Level in Demo Mode: Action State set to 7
07 - Load Level: Action State set to 8
08 - Load Level in Demo Mode: Action State set to 9
09 - Load Level: Resets Game Totals to Zero: Action State set to 3
0A - Load Level: Loads Totals: Action State set to 3
0B - Load Level: Does not alter action state
0C - Load Level: Action State set to A
0D - no effect
0E - no effect
0F - no effect


BK Action States
0037E8E4 (NTSC)
0037F2B4 (PAL)

00 - Banjo Playable, Start disabled
01 - Banjo Playable, Start disabled
02 - Banjo Playable, Character Message Actions Halted
03 - Banjo Fully Playable
04 - Items Menu Overlay
05 - Banjo Playable, Takes No Damage, No Collection Action, Start disabled
06 - Banjo controlled by AI, New Level Timer Disabled
07 - Banjo controlled by AI, Demo Timer Active
08 - Bottle's Game Overlay, Banjo controlled by AI
09 - Banjo controlled by AI, takes no damage, Exiting Level Disabled, start disabled
0A - Mumbo's Hand Overlay, Banjo controlled by AI, start disabled
0B - no effect
0C - no effect
0D - no effect
0E - no effect
0F - no effect

Some of these I find very interesting and figuring out why the developers needed them is quite a task. For example, Activator 0B seems useless, but is absolutly necessary for the way the secrets are shown at the end. The activator 0C is fired when Mumbo's hand appears. BK gets action state 0A which is puts the CPU in control of him. He swims up to SI and goes in. The level is changed using 0B which leaves the action state unchanged allowing the CPU script to continue uninterrupted. That is the only place I can find that the CPU controlled Banjo actually changes level.

So, here's the kicker, and is very speculative. Repeat, unproven and very speculative. I find activator 02 and 03 quite strange. 02 has the appearance of being a freeze, but it's not. Certain disabling addresses are set and the processor continues to run, not frozen, in a looping state. To me it could possibly be the activator for the Write Data section of SNS. Which would lead me to believe activator 03 could be the Read Data counterpart. I may be completely off base about the both of these but it is not outside the realm of possibility. They are there for some reason. I'm looking into these to see what I can find.

thatguyjr 9th June 2006 08:26 AM

When is Action 05 used?

I can't recall a time that the AI controlled Banjo ever needed to run through an item w/o picking it up.
2nd edit: It wouldn't have been for invincibility, because it lets you run through items. Thats the strange part. Maybe they thought collection and collision coding or something like that would be different between games, and reserved that mode just in case?

Edit: Wait a Minute!!!! I just got part of what you were saying! Activator 02 might very well be the "Stop" of SNS that we pull out the cartridge for! I don't understand what you mean by write and read, in the sense that I don't know which is for giving information and which one accepts information, but 02 seems to me to look sort of like a stand by, for us to insert the next game. Does anyone have a GS or a Pro Action Reply and their N64 nearby? If so, I would try to pull out BK and put in BT after using activator 02, just to see what happens. Who knows, it may actually do something. Unfortunately my N64 is a little...peed on...right now, otherwise, I'd do it myself once you all make NTSC code versions. Keep up the Great work!

Edit 3: Actually, the fact that 02 and 03 activators may deal with SNS directly also can help explain why 04 and 05 have no current effect: They may be open with the purpose of sending back data to BT (or DK) in a specific, at that point in time, undecided way.

hatrickpatrick 9th June 2006 09:12 AM

O_o this is unusual... Maybe there was going to be an invincibility cheat we didn't know about?


I can confirm that 0A is the secret mode state. On 0A, the CPU controls banjo as he's controlled in the secret cutscenes, I think. It, while mumbo's talking before the cutscene, you set it to 0A, the secret pics start straight away, whether you have 100 jiggies or not.

I'll look into this more today

hatrickpatrick 9th June 2006 12:07 PM

Ok well I tried these in Wozza's cave and found some interesting results:
Use the partial activator for these. NTSC: 80367003, PAL 80367483.
01: Ice wall gone, banjo disappears.
02: Same as above
03: Banjo disappears
04: Banjo disappears.

Interestingly, the Ice wall does NOT stay removed after using that code, you have to use the instant warp/scene reload to get it working again and when you do, the ice wall is still there. So it looks like that cutscene only SHOWS you the open doorway, it doesn't alter the SnS address at all.
I didn't get any further than 04, the game crashed a few minutes after reloading the scene so I never got to try out the others...

slaphappy 9th June 2006 03:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikesgm6
why do we need pal aswell? we should all use ntsc and wow nice finds

We don't "need" the PAL addresses, it's just nice in a common courtesy sort of way. On the flip side, someone with a PAL address doesn't "need" to give the NTSC. It just keeps everyone involved if they have the codes they are used to working with. And more eyes looking = more potential progress.

Quote:

Originally Posted by thatguyjr
Maybe they thought collection and collision coding or something like that would be different between games, and reserved that mode just in case?

I'm being overly optimistic, but maybe there is a seperate function for displaying text when in that action state. Unlikely, I know, but it was my first thought. So, the collecting ice key and 2 egg messages we've seen would be a default of sorts. If you were shown something in BT about the Ice Key and Eggs, and come back to BK, I'd half expect a "Let's get this back over there and use it" type of message. It would explain why we do not see 6 egg messages. But again, I'm only speculating.

Quote:

Originally Posted by hatrickpatrick
Banjo disappears.

Tha's what I was talking about, and you can get him back with the code I posted earlier. Keeps you from having to rewarp back.

hatrickpatrick 9th June 2006 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikesgm6
why do we need pal aswell? we should all use ntsc and wow nice finds

It'd be cool if they were the same, but unfortunately NTSC codes just won't work on a PAL n64 >_<

BanjoPL 9th June 2006 04:27 PM

Wow guys!Maybe now you are very close to find 8-year secret...maybe...
Can you noticed that Advent track is very familiar to SNS music in secret areas?

thatguyjr 9th June 2006 06:05 PM

So does anyone have an actual N64 and Pro Action Reply so they can test out that 02 activator? Or would the PAR get in the way of a hot swop?
If anyone knows of a way to emulate a cartridge switch in PJ64, tell me, and I'll give it a try.

Slaphappy, is there a way to see if similar activators are in either BT or DK 64 (since thats believed to once have held a beta SNS)?


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