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MikeHive 19th July 2007 08:21 PM


Originally Posted by runehero123
(possibly even the data needed for BT to not freeze up, vice versa for bk(remember we werent suppose to collect the eggs until BT puts the code in memory for BK to access)

Oh, yeah... that's very true. Hmmm, damn. I didn't think of that. Good thinking, my friend! I'm indebted to you. :)

Oh, and as regards the BT-on-64DD thing: after looking around on the web, it's certainly a well-documented rumour, although I still haven't yet found a proper source. If anyone can help with this, please do so! Thanks. ;)

runehero123 19th July 2007 08:28 PM

Mike could you tell me if the DD64 ran on the same controllers and memory card as the N64?


When the DD64 comes out it will add two more megabytes of RAM to the resultant Magnetic disk, and cartridge system
Sounds like the expansion pack.


the N64 is capable of only 150,000 raw polygons a sec. later this year the N64 will ship out their micro-code to arcade producers such as Williams, and Rare. It will utilize revised and improved versions of already and present features on the Co-processor. Only also it will jack up the Polygon count up to 1,000,000. polygons a sec. at 30 fps, and 60 fps a sec. at 500,000 thousand polygons. Just think of the possibilities, when Mario64 only runs on 15,000 polygons a sec., it will be incredible. And the Co-processor can do this with all the features turned on as well. It's base test of this Micro-code will begin in 1997 with N64's latest arcade development. Killer Instinct 3 will be based on this format, possibly MK4 as well.
Just some interesting stuff dealing with a Co-processor and Rare. Does anyone know much about this. Seems to incredibly speed up the polygon count. I will look up more data on this...

MikeHive 19th July 2007 08:38 PM

Yeah, as far as I understand it it was only an add-on, it wasn't another console in itself. You'd plug the DD under the N64, insert your game disk and then play with the pads, controller paks etc etc of the main console.

runehero123 19th July 2007 08:50 PM

Well, the only way I could imagine sns working in that condition would be through the use of Memory cards...let me go look at the patent again. In the meantime this website gives you some good info on the n64 hardware:

Ok, so figure 2 and 3 represent a non hot swappable form. Lets look at them, this could be the method if there ever was going to be intended for DD64.

Step 1: While playing the first game (BT on DD64 for example), check to see if memory to share with a second game has been identified. If no, the dd64 will keep checking, if yes then store that to a memory device, such as a memory card and go to step 2.

Step 2: After you connect Banjo kazooie to the N64 and turn the power on it will automatically check the memory card for data stored from BT. If there is no data found then the game will continue normally, if it does find the data it will retrieve it from the memory card and continue to step 3

step 3: Now the game will check if this info is valid (not corrupt). If its corrupt then the game will toss the data and continue on normally as if it never came across it. However if the data is good then it will utilize the data and implement it into the game as needed. Vice versa.

MikeHive 19th July 2007 09:07 PM


Originally Posted by runehero123
Well, the only way I could imagine sns working in that condition would be through the use of Memory cards...

Actually, I got this from Wikipedia:


Originally Posted by Wikipedia
The N64DD has a 32-bit coprocessor to help it read magnetic disks, and to transfer data to the main console ... The new media for the N64DD was rewritable and allowed for a storage capacity of 64MB (megabytes). The games on normal N64 cartridges could also hook up with DD expansions, for extra levels, minigames, even saving personal data ... The drive works similarly to a Zip drive, and has an enhanced audio library for the games to use. The main N64 deck uses its RCP and MIPS4300i to process data from the top cartridge slot and the I/O devices ... Unlike the N64, the 64DD can boot up on its own, without the need of a cartridge on the top deck, because it has a standard OS.

In short: BK goes in the top slot, BT as a DD disk. If you play BT with BK inserted in the top, you basically play the 'expanded' BK with the unlocked secrets (think F-Zero X Expansion thingy). Collect these and they are written to the BT disk. Play BT without BK in the top slot and you simply play BT by itself.

At least, that seems logical to me.

Obviously SnS later became a cart swap idea, probably because the 64DD quickly bombed. But I wonder if Rare had the DD in mind when they originally concieved SnS in BK.

runehero123 19th July 2007 09:13 PM

You bring up a good point my friend. May have been at one time. They would have had to call it Connect 'N' Swop though. :)

MikeHive 19th July 2007 09:17 PM

Ah, yes, good point. The words "Stop N' Swop" don't sound like a cart-to-disk transfer at all, since neither are actually 'stopping'. And if things were transferred instantaneously from cart to disk as you would assume, there would be no need for the SnS menu at all.

Seems there's a hole in that theory, then. :p

runehero123 19th July 2007 09:23 PM

I dunno but you could ask this guy, seems he is a DD64 know it all. Got it off of gamefaq btw, can be found here:


- Trevis Chase ( - This guy knows everything about the
DD64! Thank you very very much for all the big help!

MikeHive 19th July 2007 09:31 PM

As a matter of fact, I have already emailed a couple of DD-knowledgable folks :) I'll let you know if anyone gets back to me.

KeronSHB 19th July 2007 10:08 PM

Hey mind if I join?

I have:

All NTSC and all 1.0 (I think all 1.0) BK (E), BT (64 and E), Dk64 (64 and E) Gameshark (E)

Fox McBanjo 20th July 2007 02:47 PM

Anybody can join, so yeah, welcome to the TB.

Mike, have you tried Wiki for BT on the DD? I would say it has SOME information, I remember reading about it somewhere...

runehero123 20th July 2007 08:02 PM

Ok, Great job mike, and Keron your free to join as well. Bobby will get you entered into the site as soon as possible.

Anyways, here is my thoughts on tracking down this swap code. This is part of my 10 page sns theory notes, but I will only give one section as it makes the most sense, so without further it is:


Originally Posted by Runehero SNS notes

Questions we will answer are:

1) Where would the code be placed in memory by a first program?

2) How would it be put there?

3) How would the second program locate it?

4) How the heck could we locate it?

All these questions I will intend to answer, Here is what I have so far...

1) The code most likely after an event has occured would be placed in the RDRAM(if were talkin hotswappin!), otherwise it would be placed in a memory card.

2) Well a Flag, I believe, would be an on/off variable. In binary this would be shown as a 1 or a 0 (1 being true and 0 meaning false), in hex I believe on/off variables would be written as so... 803XXXXX 0001, for on, and 803XXXXX 0000 for off. My thoughts are that this code would be placed into ram as on/off.

3) The second program as soon as it is placed into the N64 would search for that flag by something called a pointer (A variable that points to another variable in memory). So I think if you change one, then it will change the other.

4) At the moment, I might know of one way to check for these flag variables. The only game we could check is BK. Since that has the most SNS functionality. First, we would search for values of 0, then collect the ice-key(since it may have been the item used to test the hot-swap functionality between BK and DK.) and see which values increase by 1. Okay, so if we do find a value like that we will look at its address in memory, then open up DK64 or BT and see if their is a pointer, pointing to that address at all times(or at least near execution of the game). If their is then I'd think we found our flag. I hope everyone could understand my poor definitions, so does anyone think this would be a good test, or are their other suggestions?

That is my thoughts on how we could go about finding the trigger in BT and DK64. The reason we need to use the ice-key is that we know that at least Dk at one time may have been able to communicate with data placed by Bk in the RDRAM.

Fox McBanjo 20th July 2007 09:19 PM

Well rune, that is the best idea on the TB I've seen from you. And it makes sense. I'd write more but I'm using a Wii. :p

runehero123 20th July 2007 09:37 PM

Thanks, I'm gonna start testing as soon as I figure out which program will work best in locating these flag's.


Ok, I have had some time to test it out yesterday. Although I need to convert the codes from pc addresses into gameshark addresses (wasnt there a program that did it for you?).

I used a 8-bit and 2-bit search on banjo kazooie using Artmoney. First I would search for values that were 0 and then after I collect the ice-key I would search for values changed to 1. I would then filter out all the variables that did not change after collecting the ice-key to get the end result of 25 addresses for a 2-bit search.

What I found is that after you collect any of the SNS items the game would switch this flag to "on" or 1. When I collected the blue egg I found it placed this 1 in the exact 25 addresses along with a 01 flag near it, which probably indicates, "blue egg collected", The other atm I believe might indicate "Stop N Swop on". I will try to post some screenies. Just hang in their.

Fox McBanjo 21st July 2007 06:52 PM

Just seen the edit. Nice work Rune. Are their any other flags, like when Mumbo shows you the egg and key in the photos?

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