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hatrickpatrick 8th February 2005 07:08 PM

SNS update: I think I know which 4 of the 6 eggs we are supposed to get
I reckon, BTW, that you have to do this BEFORE you collect the ice key
bear in mind that this theory could be completely wrong; I'd try it myself if my EQ wasnt broken, thus stopping me from deleting the 6 eggs I already have.
In GTBG, they say "collect 4 eggs". I, as one of the few people who still thinks the SnS activator may be in BK, played right through the game on Saturday, and I think I now know which eggs need to be collected. Unfortunatly I stupidly collected the ice key first, and like I said, I now cant delete it. But I reckon we might find out some stuff if we follow the directions from ghoulies.

The eggs are as follows:

I am unsure about whether you need the cyan or the green egg, but I'm fairly sure it's cyan.

Now, how I came to these conclusions:
I noticed that after collecting the ice key, all the other eggs left in the game dropped in speed (of rotation), by more than half the original speed. I reckon this was because they were now useless. If you look at the SnS screen, you will find that the red egg spins much slower than the others, so I ruled that one out. The pink, yellow, and blue eggs spin at normal speed, and anyway I knew we had to collect those ones because the blue and pink were shown in mumbos video, and the yellow in fact spins faster than any of the others.
That leave cyan and green. Since they are not right beside eachother in the SnS screen, it's almost impossible to tell how fast they are spinning, so I was hoping someone could verify which of them is faster. I think it's the green, but can't be sure.

So here's what I need someone to do:
firstly, if you've already got the eggs and key, enter this code with a cheat cart to get rid of them:
PAL: 81283220 0000
NTSC: Coming soon

Then, do the following
1: get rid of that code (you will NOT be able to enter sandcastle codes for the secrets with that code on)
2: play through the game, and collect the 4 eggs listed above (hopefully we'll first find out whether it's the cyan/green egg, before anyone tries this)
3: Get the ice key
4: See if anything's changed.

This may lead to nothing, but It's worth a try...

EDIT: We need to get the Ice key first, THEN the eggs. I meant to add that ages ago when we found out.

Gaming Master2k 8th February 2005 07:19 PM

If this was true I'd be willing to bet that it's the cyan (the one you find in the celler of MMM because the wine barrels in Ghoulies has the same number on them as the ones in BK... I noticed that while I was playing it.

Meowrik 8th February 2005 07:33 PM

Interesting theory you have there. I'd try it if I had an Action Replay or Gameshark.

I always wondered why there were two eggs in Mad Monster Mansion...

SSJ3 Gogeta 8th February 2005 08:01 PM

I was right in thinking that SNS might have a slim chance of survival...maybe THAT'S what legally unlocks Bottles' Revenge...

P.S.: What's a "GQ"?

hatrickpatrick 8th February 2005 08:08 PM

You mean EQ >_>
It's a version of the action replay pro for the UK. Same, but without the PC connection.

Benjo Koolzooie 8th February 2005 08:14 PM

I wish I had my Nintendo 64 and Banjo games still. I would have done this myself if I had.

I always wondered why there were 2 eggs in MMM also.

Surely there is something in BK that was activated/would link to BT.

hatrickpatrick 8th February 2005 08:25 PM

Yes, I've always felt there should be a trigger in BK, even if the rest of it was removed in BT
otherwise rare have been lying since before BK came out...

Benjo Koolzooie 8th February 2005 08:32 PM

Yes, that is what I think.

It is still the "tell us what the eggS and key are for", spoken by Kazooie after seeing ONE egg and the ice key, that bothers me. Genuine mistake? Or was there more to the ending of BK...?

hatrickpatrick 8th February 2005 08:37 PM

Also, we should start making a list of things which change after u get the SnS stuff
for example: The X for sharkfood island, on the TTC map in RBB, changes from red to black after getting the egg. That is quite bizarre, seeing as most people wouldnt notice it...

Benjo Koolzooie 8th February 2005 08:42 PM

Are you certain that the X changes colour?

cyberen 8th February 2005 10:51 PM

i'd do it if i werent so lazy. ask the dude who did the BK test run to do it.

R Hunter 8th February 2005 11:23 PM

This is quite compelling patrick, it does make a lot of sense with everything we know so far. One thing that bothers me though is the fact that if your theory is correct then it seems as though the other 2 eggs aren't really needed, and if that's true then why include them in the game?

Gaming Master2k 9th February 2005 01:14 AM

Maybe the 4 eggs and key open something in one game and the other 2 open something in the other.

The 4 eggs and key i think would do something in Tooie and the other 2 in BK.... 10 extra jiggies in BT? OR 8 Extra jiggies in BK transfering the 10 left over to BT and unlocking Bottle's Revenge.... Really not many people know what it'd have done.

R Hunter 9th February 2005 02:54 AM

SnS is a mystery that may or may not be solved. But I must admit it is fun hoping that it will be solved.:D I'd help out with this experiment but i'd need the NTSC code and a AR for the N64.

Benjo Koolzooie 9th February 2005 10:44 AM

The yellow egg is probably one required - BK speaks after collecting that, so that would make sense.

hatrickpatrick 9th February 2005 12:11 PM

He speaks after collecting any of them, it doesnt matter which order u get them in
But it spins WAY faster than any of the others, so it probably is needed

if your theory is correct then it seems as though the other 2 eggs aren't really needed, and if that's true then why include them in the game?
A trap. I am seriously beginning to think that if you collect the other 2, you cant do whatever it is the eggs give you. It would make sense, probably if u follow the directions, you instantly get a cutscene after collecting the ice key. The extra 2 eggs were put in to stop hackers, I think...
IE, if you find 6 eggs in memory, you're gonna collect them all, right? Rareware were probably only going to tell us how to get the correct 4, and the other 2 would never be known about. Which means I'm gonna have to get a new equalizer to get this to work. It's hard to believe, but after that Ghoulies "board" thing, it seems highly likely...

Benjo Koolzooie 9th February 2005 12:33 PM

If anything it could be the cyan one. The cyan egg has it's own chamber, a secret area that is designated especially for it - just like the pink egg is inside a special area, the blue egg is in a special area also.

The red/green/yellow eggs seem out of place to me.

Banjo/Kazooie only speaks after acquiring the yellow/pink/blue eggs and ice key right? I don't remember any speech after collecting the red egg nor the green one.

Also, remember the yellow large base egg is in the American version of BT, but not the Pal version. Also the yellow egg was strangely included in BT.

Are you certain the X changes colour, and that the egg speeds alter? I am not trying to "combat" you, I am just curious.

hatrickpatrick 9th February 2005 06:09 PM

Yes, the eggs speeds are definetly different, check the SnS screen. That is why I'm certain we dont get the red one, and we do get the yellow.
I agree with your "seperate chamber" and "out of place" theory, but the problem there is that only 3 of the eggs have special chambers and we know we have to get 4...

And I havent seen the X change colour myself, but I've heard it mentioned countless times over at gamefaqs...

Grey Jinjo 9th February 2005 07:54 PM

... They could've just developed 6. Then they thought of the secrets they wanted to include and realized they only needed 4. Taking the other 2 out of the memory served no purpose and just took time, so they could've just left them in...

hatrickpatrick 9th February 2005 07:57 PM

So we still have to find out which 4 to collect
Anyone want to try my list?

Banjo-Fella 9th February 2005 08:28 PM

To be honest, all three of the remaining out of place eggs seem just that - out of place. But here's my two-cents on the situation.

Right, the green egg makes the most sense, considering where it is - on top of Loggo. There could have been multiple explanations for this. The egg could have been supposed to originate from inside Loggo's septic tank. However, there's already the cyan egg in MMM, so it seems unlikely that a second egg would be there.

Then there's the yellow egg, which seems suspiciously fake. However, it's in a room that serves no other real purpose in its current season. I can't think of any way they could have explained its appearence.

Finally, you've got your red egg. In the captain's room. Presumably Captain Blackeye's room, but there's no telling, really. I really have no idea how this could have gotten here, but there are some subtle SNS clues inside the ship, so it could still be a key egg.

I do believe that SNS was canned, and I almost fully doubt ever finding a complete working version of the intended SNS in the N64 games. However, I think there's a strong possibility of finding a cutscene, or some tiny remanant of the connection in BK. It's likely that Rare didn't want to be overly specific about the connection in BK, though - in case they changed their mind.

EvilPsycho 10th February 2005 05:25 AM

yeah captain blackeye has got to have something to do with it.

i dont really think it can be credible. the pics next to it on the chalkboard. refer to the pics mumbo shows u. ice key, gobi blue egg, sharkfoodisland pink egg. i would have to presume that there would have to be a certain order and certain eggs u need. so the search continues.


Benjo Koolzooie 10th February 2005 09:22 AM

Bare with me in this post, it is just some ideas worth thinking about.

Yeah, that's what made me re-think my idea about the "secret chambers" - but who SAID we get the yellow egg ? I always remember pausing the pause screen and the eggs would spin at different speeds no matter what? Sometimes slow, sometimes fast? I don't know for sure.

The thing that leads me to believe we collect the yellow egg is the fact Banjo speaks after collecting that (he doesn't after aquiring the cyan/red/green egg - right?) But again, there is another contradiction cause if no speech occurs after the cyan egg's collection, which I think is a probable one to collect, having it's own special chamber created for it 'n' all, then perhaps the other eggs do not have to have any speech after their collection.

The green egg seems to make sense to a degree as stated is a ghastly green colour and near a filthy loggo. I can not see what could trigger that to appear, as well as the red egg on the bed and the one in Nabnut's house. I mean, I don't know what would trigger the secret areas where the ice key and such is either. However the secrets shown at the end of the game (and the cyan egg..) are in special places, so ok, they are "always" there. But what would make the red/yellow/green egg appear in places you can visit in the natural course of the game?

Rare claim, in other words "You shouldn't know about the secret items, so why should we speak of it? We never said it was part of the game" - well....that is rubbish. We know we was to go and collect the items from their BK locations beause they speak, they can claim as much as they want we shouldnt have known, but it is obvious we should have. Also, why show us a raised rock with an egg inside, a chamber ON SHOW with an ice key inside it. If rare wanted to show us a preview of secrets in the next game, mumbo could have shown still images of the ice key and eggs and that would be that. So my point, we were meant to get the secrets in BK. The theory is further backed up with how the secrets in BT were in BK packs! If we were not intended to get them in BK, why have them in BK pack - you can't get them from there!? Do you see my point? If Rare wanted they could have stuck the ice key and couple of eggs around BT (not in BK paks) and that would be that, but they didn't.

Also please explain to me the 3D rendered images of Banjo holding the ice key and pink egg??

There is also the "please tell us what what the eggS and key are for" - was a secret image at the end removed? Kazooie says EggS after seeing one. If Rare removed another secret being shown to us by Mumbo from the end, that implies they didn't want us to know about it (for personal reasons, or so that if SNS occured, we'd get a surprise with more secrets than expected). If they moved it because they didn't want anyone to ever collect it or know about it - it implies they dropped and removed SNS from the start.

I don't care what anyone says "Rare didn't say we actually get the items IN BK" - of course we were meant to! Why program them in the game , why have speech when items are collected, why have music in the secret areas. At some point it was intended, hackers or no hackers - and I'd like to know what was intended.

Plus, does anyone else think the cut scenes where you kill the "big cluckers" near click clock wood is a bit strange? I do! You kill some and they pop out of their hole squark and drop to their death in a small pointless cutscene. It doesn't happen when you kill other creatures that pop from walls...just these strange looking birds? Any link to the eggs?

Just some ideas.

Also, why would Rare set a trap? We weren't supposed to know about those items as Rare say - so why were they setting traps?

In regards to the Grabbed By The Ghoulies SNS references - probably jokes? They knew most kids/teens would be likely BK players and probably took part in the SNS thing, looking for secret levels, how to find the eggs etc - and made that their homework (rather than actual school homework!) - so made a joke of it.

Grey Jinjo 10th February 2005 10:54 AM

Still, the word "eggS" could just be referencing the blue and pink eggs even if one wasn't shown yet.

Benjo Koolzooie 10th February 2005 11:43 AM

Yes I know that could be so. But is very unoften that Rare would make such mistakes.

Also there was speculation before about scenes being removed from the ending.

So, anyone got any idea on the "big clucker" cut scenes?

SSJ3 Gogeta 10th February 2005 03:02 PM

Hmmmmmmmmm...I probably CAN find out, with the ROM...

hatrickpatrick 10th February 2005 04:22 PM

One thing though, about speech:
I always thought banjo speaks after any of them, but stops after you get 2. IE, he speaks aftert the first 2 u collect, no matter which ones they are
I dont know if that's correct, but I think it is...
Also, no, I dont expect to find SnS complete and working (although you really DO never know - look at bottles revenge) but There has to be some sort of cutscene left in BK, which is why I'm trying to figure all this out. I think rareware might actually have been telling the truth in GbtG about 4 eggs...

R Hunter 10th February 2005 06:42 PM

Perhaps rare was telling us the truth in GbtG but one thing that works against that idea is the fact that rare enjoys watching people search for any secrets hidden in the BK games, and they figured that some BK players would play GbtG so what do they do?
Place that "homework" in to further screw with our heads and make us look for something that might not exist anymore. Of course maybe rare did intend to give us a hint with our assignment, we can't know until we either find something or completely search but find nothing at all.
Let's keep throwing ideas around this is a very interesting debate.

SSJ3 Gogeta 10th February 2005 07:42 PM

What does GbtG stand for?

Gaming Master2k 10th February 2005 07:55 PM

Grabbed by the Ghoulies, their Xbox game

Banjo-Fella 10th February 2005 09:01 PM

It's fairly simple why they might have set a trap. Obviosuly they knew that they wouldn't be releasing Banjo-Tooie any time soon after BK - which gave hackers plenty of time to make cheats to get the items. So, they planted a trap which would bugger up the sequence without anyone knowing it. By exploiting the human desire to collect every bugger'n thing possible, they had a system which would stall hackers until Banjo-Tooie, thus not leading to their surprise being ruined. Then Nintendo decided hot-swapping was dangerous - so they were buggered. Either that, or something else happened to feck up the connection.

Icy Guy 10th February 2005 09:31 PM


Originally Posted by hatrickpatrick
Now, how I came to these conclusions:
I noticed that after collecting the ice key, all the other eggs left in the game dropped in speed (of rotation), by more than half the original speed.

Unless my memory's totally shot, I believe the eggs spin at random speeds, both in the levels and on the SNS screen.

Nice to see someone's still interested in a bit of secret-hunting, though. This brings back memories...

Benjo Koolzooie 10th February 2005 09:38 PM

I think he speaks only after the yellow egg is acquired. Perhaps someone could confirm.

Perhaps someone could confirm the X colour change also.

Surely if there was an extra cut scene it would have been discovered by now? I know, Bottles Revenge was recently found, so there could be hope?

Perhaps the "debug" codes were the correct way to get them? After all there is a small cut scene after each one?

Anyone care to comment on the "Big Clucker" mini scenes after you kill certain ones around Click Clock Wood?

About the "trap - why would they set one if "SNS was never meant to be known by the public" - obviously they expected no one to find SNS, so why would they set a trap? They didn't think hackers would collect them back when they created it. If so, they expected the public ti know about it. See what I mean?

I am sure the eggs rotate at random speeds?

I always thought it would be a good idea to see if the e"Stop N Swop" text changed colour. For example, if you are in "mumbos mountain", on the pause totals screen for mumbos mountain, the text at the top would be blue, indicating you are there. I always wondered if the SNS text would ever change - if it did, you would obviously be in the SNS location.

Is it true BK picks up the secret items on the memory card? Boltdragoon's site claims hackers have claimed it does?

Banjo-Fella 10th February 2005 10:17 PM

There are cutscenes associated with the sandcastle codes?! If I knew that, I would have tried them long ago.

I'll try to confirm the red/black X.

EDIT: It's always black. Oh, well.

Benjo Koolzooie 11th February 2005 10:01 AM

Yeah, only very brief cut scenes.

Thanks for confirming the X thing.

hatrickpatrick 11th February 2005 07:43 PM

anyone still want to try this? I worked out that, if the order in which the eggs are collected doesnt matter, there are only 15 possible combinations.
Unfortunatly, if the order does matter, we're looking at 360 combinations...
does the order count, do u guys think?

qqwref 11th February 2005 09:39 PM

I think the order definately counts - if anything counts at all, that is. There has to have been a sequence planned.

hatrickpatrick 11th February 2005 09:45 PM

yeah but
the 1, 2, 3 thing on the board, could mean
get 4 eggs (in any order)
THEN get key
I reckon as soon as you collect the key, if you've got the eggs right, you get a cutscene of some sort, or a blindingly obvious addition to gruntys lair...

Grey Jinjo 11th February 2005 09:54 PM

Well anything else could be a pre-trigger variable. Which means order means nothing until you do something specific. Which would make trying the combinations obsolete.

FreshBanjoGamer 12th February 2005 05:50 AM

Well, okay, I have two un-hacked copies of BK, but no I'm wondering if I can use these "Sandcastle Codes" to get the eggs in the same manner...and if I can delete them and try again.

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