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hatrickpatrick 2nd August 2006 06:55 PM

SNS update: I think I know which 4 of the 6 eggs we are supposed to get (part 2)
Part 1:

Well, it was the beginning of Februrary last year when I first noticed the possible connection between 4 of BK's eggs. And now, a year and a half, and 3,073 posts later, we're still here, about to go into part 2 of what was, quite possibly, the biggest thread I've ever seen on a Vbulliten forum. I remember the early days of that thread, trawling through BK's memory and looking for clues, beginning a search through all possible egg combinations, and giving that up just as quickly as I started when I realised just how long it would take.

I never thought that the thread would reach the age and size it did. I even remember my astonishment when, a few weeks after posting the first message, the thread's "views" count surpassed that of the "Post the best fakey" competition. And I certainly never thought we'd come so far in finding SnS.

Back then, I was a really, really crappy hacker. I didn't know the difference between 80 and 81 codes, I had no clue how an activator would work, I didn't even know that there were codes which could control things based on which button you were pressing. That was all new territory to me. I never would have expected that a year later we would have the beginnings of the fabled cutscene modifier, we'd have found hidden scenes, backround models, text, rooms, and all the other pieces of information we got along the way. So first off, I'd like to thank everyone who's brought us to where we are today, all the theories, codes, hidden things people have found,the sheer length of time we kept looking.

It was unfortunate that the thread got closed when it did; conversation in it was becoming more and more random and bizarre, nothing new had been discovered in ages, and we were stalling. I was, in fact, JUST about to post a message suggesting we have another look at the cutscene mod. I still think that it's been our best lead so far. We need to map it out and find the rest of the activator, and also to revisit all the unsolved mysteries we discovered along the way (particularly the hidden silos in BT).The reason I DIDNT post that message was because I was waiting to see if Ice had managed to figure out the M code for BT. I haven't seen him post anything about it since he announced that he thought he could make one, so you never know, he might have managed it. We'll have to wait and see. Until then, there are a few things I really think we should look at:
1: The cutscene mod. If anyone has hacking experience, we need people to help map it, and also to try and find the 2nd activator for it (The one we have, bizarrely, doesn't control all the cutscenes, only some of them ???) which I really think would be a huge help.
2: We need to revisit some things we found and then forgot about. I'll try and find the links to them later today (although it might be tomorrow before I have them all, going through that topic looking for forgotten posts is NOT going to be an easy job >_>)

So, just to kick us off, I'm going to repost all the cutscene mod info we have so far. Credit goes to Slaphappy for finding these codes which had eluded just about everyone for so long.


Originally Posted by Slaphappy
Sorry I didn't get a chance to post sooner today. Here's what I've run across with the Cutscene Modifiers. They are going to be a collection of sorts though, because they don't all act as one type.

Some examples of what I mean by types:

In-Level Cutscene
MMM - The Church Door Timer
Jump on it and a cutscene appears showing the door open

Out-Of-Level Cutscene
TTC - The Grunty Jiggy Switch
Jump on it and the cutscene shows a different level momentarily and then comes back to where you started.

Here is a NTSC memory address I can't quite pin down, but it is clearly an activator/state value.

With a new game state, warp over to TTC and put in this code for Cap'n Blubber's cutscene:
80367003 0002

Warp to MMM and put in this code for the church door cutscene:
80367003 0001

Other level cutscenes (but clearly not all) are activated by this as well, but I haven't put in enough time to get a handle on it. There are many more pieces to the puzzle.

As for Out-Of-Level Cutscenes, here are the addresses for the source and destination levels of the scenes shown:

Go to Cutscene Level:
80367687 00XX

Return To Original Level:
80367697 00XX
8036769B 00YY

XX = Scene Digit
YY = Level Placement

I do not have an activator location for the out-of-scene yet, so I usually just use a grunty switch for it.

It looks like all cutscenes occur at Level Placement 00, but with varying camera positions. For the cutscene camera position, it looks as though 8036768B may be the value, but messing with it usually just gives a black screen and usually disables/screws up the send back function. Weird. It maybe be some combination with 8036768F which gets populated with a unique value as well.

If I get a chance tomorrow, using Ice's suggestion, I'll see if I can convert these to PAL. Yeah, I know, it's not NTFS.

He went on to post the same information in PAL, plus some more codes involving placement of banjo and sprites in the level during cutscenes:


Originally Posted by Slaphappy
Partial Activator:

Go to Cutscene Level:
80367B07 00XX

Return To Original Level:
80367B17 00XX
80367B1B 00YY

I wasn't messing around to much with the cutscene, because when you use the activator, you get strange results. Put in a value and Banjo and the objects in the level disappear. Put the value back to zero or it's original value and the objects come back but not Banjo. So I'd have to reload the level to get him back. Tedious at best.

Well, I found the location to get Banjo back and it has couple other behaviors. So if your going to investigate the activator, this will be beneficial.

8037BFB8 00XX
00 - Banjo's Gone
01 - Banjo's Back

8037BFB9 00YY
00 - Banjo's Frozen
01 - Banjo's Movable

8037BFBA 00ZZ
00 - Banjo's Shadow's Gone
01 - Banjo's Shadow's Back

Here are the PAL counterparts:
8037C988 00XX
8037C989 00YY
8037C98A 00ZZ

And finally, he posted this:

BK Activator
0037E8F4 (NTSC)
8037F2C4 (PAL)

00 - no effect
01 - Load Level: Action State set to 3
02 - Halt State (processor still executing): Action State set to 2
03 - Bad Address: Action State set to 2
04 - no effect
05 - no effect
06 - Load Level in Demo Mode: Action State set to 7
07 - Load Level: Action State set to 8
08 - Load Level in Demo Mode: Action State set to 9
09 - Load Level: Resets Game Totals to Zero: Action State set to 3
0A - Load Level: Loads Totals: Action State set to 3
0B - Load Level: Does not alter action state
0C - Load Level: Action State set to A
0D - no effect
0E - no effect
0F - no effect

BK Action States
0037E8E4 (NTSC)
0037F2B4 (PAL)

00 - Banjo Playable, Start disabled
01 - Banjo Playable, Start disabled
02 - Banjo Playable, Character Message Actions Halted
03 - Banjo Fully Playable
04 - Items Menu Overlay
05 - Banjo Playable, Takes No Damage, No Collection Action, Start disabled
06 - Banjo controlled by AI, New Level Timer Disabled
07 - Banjo controlled by AI, Demo Timer Active
08 - Bottle's Game Overlay, Banjo controlled by AI
09 - Banjo controlled by AI, takes no damage, Exiting Level Disabled, start disabled
0A - Mumbo's Hand Overlay, Banjo controlled by AI, start disabled
0B - no effect
0C - no effect
0D - no effect
0E - no effect
0F - no effect

Some of these I find very interesting and figuring out why the developers needed them is quite a task. For example, Activator 0B seems useless, but is absolutly necessary for the way the secrets are shown at the end. The activator 0C is fired when Mumbo's hand appears. BK gets action state 0A which is puts the CPU in control of him. He swims up to SI and goes in. The level is changed using 0B which leaves the action state unchanged allowing the CPU script to continue uninterrupted. That is the only place I can find that the CPU controlled Banjo actually changes level.

So, here's the kicker, and is very speculative. Repeat, unproven and very speculative. I find activator 02 and 03 quite strange. 02 has the appearance of being a freeze, but it's not. Certain disabling addresses are set and the processor continues to run, not frozen, in a looping state. To me it could possibly be the activator for the Write Data section of SNS. Which would lead me to believe activator 03 could be the Read Data counterpart. I may be completely off base about the both of these but it is not outside the realm of possibility. They are there for some reason. I'm looking into these to see what I can find.
This is as much as we currently know about the cutscene mod. And I think our first port of call in this thread should be to find out more, and map it out. Like I said, if anyone can help with that it'd be much appreciated. I'll start a thread on the Hacking board especially for that cause.

I've found a copy of my original sum up of forgotten discoveries in the other thread so I'll post that below (I want to devide this post seeing how it's getting so big >_>)

hatrickpatrick 2nd August 2006 06:56 PM

Posted early on Christmas eve last year >_>


Originally Posted by hatrickpatrick
I've split this into two categories. And the topics I want people to pay particular attention to are the Beta Spiral Mountain one (which I still think could be a massive, massive discovery) and the Fungus Forest one, which has some very interesting evidence in it for a connection with FP.


Here I list the threads which seemed, to me, to have extremely relevant information in them, but were abandoned and forgotten about. These are listed in order of how big the discoveries were, and personally I think we should keep looking into some of these...

The Gobi's Walley Topic - This one has two discoveries, one being the unexplained appearance of question marks on GV's walls, the other being about the Ice Key wall. Apparently it's meant to slide open rather than smash.

BETA spiral mountain level discovered, hidden in BK's instant warp as a crash digit - This one, I think, is probably a lot more important than we realised at the time, as it's one of the few unexplained locations in BK which doesnt seem to bear relation to any part of the game and *could* be the setting for some hidden cutscene or event. We never actually found out what it was for, and it could still have things we don't know about. Looks very promising indeed.

The topic which started off all the excitement about FP possibly having the link to Fungus forest. There is still a great deal of controversy over the existance of fungus forest. I myself find it fairly unlikely that an entire level could be hidden in memory, but there is a lot of evidence in here to support just that. well worth the read.

*Worth a look, but probably insignificant*
The discovery of the beta JRL pipe - I think it's fairly safe to say that it was just a duplicate of the existing JRL pipe left in for some unknown reason.

Banjooie believes he has discovered an extra piece of land in spiral mountain which is unused by the game - Still not quite sure what that was, but I think the general consensus was that it was a glitch

Also, I feel I owe everyone an apology over the demo control codes. Again, I sort of forgot about them after my digits list became seriously innacurate and complicated... I might just post the addresses, with a vague description of what each digit CAN do. pinning them down is just too difficult.

So merry christmas everyone, have a great one!

So, on we go, into part 2!

I'll post a link to the hacking board topic as soon as I get a chance to make it. Until then, good luck everyone.


TzTok-Jad 2nd August 2006 10:24 PM

i hope that this topic goes from.. well what it is now to finding somthing REALy useful

Dricenticore 2nd August 2006 10:31 PM

What? You thinkn different coloured things in the world are usefull but a cutscene mod isn't? Ok let me clear this up.


TzTok-Jad 2nd August 2006 10:37 PM

the eggs are bright and nice... maby the programers liked those 6 paticular colors!

hey with a cutscene mod, does that let you play in areas where the cutscenes take place?

did anyone try going DOWN the stairs in the openind scene where grunty is in the tower talking to dingpot?

supuhchris 2nd August 2006 10:49 PM

the reason the egg colors are in alot of video games is because there aren't very many colors that they would use, most other colors would just be shades of those colors and the only other colors that there could realy be would be colors like brown, black, grey, or white. atleast thats what i think (i don't see a reason to spell color with a u)

hatrickpatrick 3rd August 2006 12:35 AM


hey with a cutscene mod, does that let you play in areas where the cutscenes take place?
No, it lets you watch cutscenes without triggering them, IE, watch the "blubber's gold" cutscene without actually giving him the gold. We've been hoping that might let us watch the SnS cutscenes without activating them but work needs to be done still to get it working properly...


did anyone try going DOWN the stairs in the openind scene where grunty is in the tower talking to dingpot?
I'm not sure, but I think we're all fairly sure that room is the room with the yellow warp cauldron in it after the quiz, but with different sprites?

collecter 3rd August 2006 01:24 AM

I don't want to start a wild goose chase or anything but I remember reading a thread somewhere on this site about playing during cut scenes. One group of hackers should find and explore for cutscene oddities (like the jinjo it mentions) and a second group should work on expanding and refining the cutscene codes. I'm sorry that I'm not that helpfull.

TzTok-Jad 3rd August 2006 02:09 AM

i think if someone gives a screenie if grunty turning away frin dingpot where she says "WEll.. we'll see" that part where it shows the wall, a pic of here when she first talks (where she digs her nose) and the saem pics of the tower room with banjo, we can make a lickely comparision and see if it infact the room ith the last "needed" note door

Isaac 3rd August 2006 02:53 AM

I visited the begining cutscene (Grunty with her cauldron, picking her nose) and it's the room with the yellow warp cauldron.

slaphappy 3rd August 2006 05:36 PM


Originally Posted by collecter
I don't want to start a wild goose chase or anything but I remember reading a thread somewhere on this site about playing during cut scenes.

It lets you play during the level cutscenes, or more specifically, the levels with Animation Scripts running.

BK Maptacular Fun

You can explore past the open Transformation Room door, and in some places there are floors to walk on that aren't visible. So an activator may be needed, or maybe we were never intended to be there and there is no activator. It seems everything we find leads to more things to find. Hacking is such sweet sorrow. :(

pinkbull 4th August 2006 07:01 PM

Okay I wrote somthing awhile back. It's a summery of that entire page. Here's the link. I'm also working on another article that should also help to keep repeat discoverys down and more new discoveries. It should be VERY useful.

breagullbomber 4th August 2006 09:31 PM

ok you guys...i really wanna become a hacker and help out but i've got a problem...when i start to begin my hhacking it doesent let me...the problem is i try to go into beta or w/e on my shark by preessing the button on the front but it doesent do anything...any suggestions??(BTW i dont have the 4MB expansion pack if thats the problem someone plaese tell me) My memories not great but i think the manual said something like turn on the code generator then turn on the game and press the button on the front, anyways, any helps appriciated and i really hope this thread goes somewhere BIG twords finding SNS. The faster you help me the faster you get more help hacking!!

Platinum Jinjo 4th August 2006 10:05 PM

you need the 4mb expansion pack to use the code generator.

hatrickpatrick 5th August 2006 12:01 AM

Wow, thanks Pinkbull great job!

Do closed threads here purge? If so, I'm going to have a go at archiving most of the thread, although with so many pages it'll take hours >_>

OmniMan 5th August 2006 12:09 AM

great job Pinkbull!
Thanx alot :)

Tatsumaru 5th August 2006 01:12 AM

Yay Pinkbull ^_^ that certainly would help instead of doing the same things over and over without realizing it.

pinkbull 5th August 2006 03:43 AM

I forged weeks into making that. It's good to see people appreciating my work. That's why I'm making another article. I'll try to make sure this time it keeps on track. I don't want this ending up like the last time near the end of it's days. I just want it how it used to be with people trying out their ideas. Not posting every single one of their theorys on the forums...And progress. We can't forget about progress. That's somthing we lost awhile back. And I think we need it back...

hatrickpatrick 6th August 2006 11:36 AM

^ I agree.

The timing of this REALLY stinks, loads of people are away for the summer >_< So I don't think we'll see any activity for a while

There's also the chance that people will realise the thread was locked and just decide that's the end of it, that happened on GameFAQs countless times (they auto lock topics at 500 posts), and once a major topic hit 500 it would just sink into the depths and never be heard of, or seen, again :-/

We'll just have to try and keep it going until everyone gets back (is it just me or have these forums been DEAD for the last few weeks?)

pinkbull 6th August 2006 06:30 PM

Yes they have. Today not too many of the vets care about SnS anymore. Their mostly in the CC and AAG. Alot of people also look down on BD. It's a shame it won't be like the good old days when we made alot of progress. Now it seems the spirit of SnS is dying out. But as long as someone cares about finding SnS it will always be alive. And that's how santa melted the North Pole and destroyed the elfs.

Daydreams 6th August 2006 08:19 PM

What we really need is for somehow there to be interest in this game again, though I don't know how that would happen.

Go_Nosis 6th August 2006 08:28 PM

I never lost interest in SnS, I just stopped posting when quantity overtook quality. You'll notice I do that.

but here I am, guys!

pinkbull 6th August 2006 08:28 PM

Nosis! Your back! It's good to see you again.

KryptoniteJinjo 6th August 2006 08:30 PM

I thank all of you guys, because if we hack through the game first, we'll make much more progress than just throwing meaningless theories out. Once again, thank you for being the Hackers that you are.

Go_Nosis 6th August 2006 10:32 PM

just in line with a former theory i've seen flying around, i did some out of game scoping and seen that its possible for banjo to stand inside the beauty machines. see the attached pic.

what does this mean? probably nothing. But we can all chip in and put our pieces of this puzzle together, try to finish it.

Hold on while i try getting into the other one, i'll update to tell you guys if theres any difference.

EDIT: Yeah i know, that was fast. Nothin' to report, you can stand inside the machine. I don't have any theories that coincide with this, can anyone else use this?

Also, one thing has always bugged me about Banjo Kazooie. The room with the Mad Monster Mansion entrance, and the Gobi's Valley puzzle. I know it's been brought up before, but it strikes me as odd that its the ONLY map (save the quiz level) that has fire of any kind. You'd think in a colorfol game like BK, they'd have more fire stuff.

But anyways, I'll keep on the prowl! Good luck, everyone!

KryptoniteJinjo 6th August 2006 10:34 PM

With the cutscene mod, During the cutscene where Grunty turns beautiful, there is a period where Tooty isn't in the machine anymore. During that period, you can go into hers, so I don't think it's anything really important. Then again, most things aren't solid during the cutscenes...

TzTok-Jad 7th August 2006 01:45 AM

i think this topic should be stickyed again

hackedjinjo 7th August 2006 03:15 AM

why dont we try the jappanes version? that may have stuff about SNS that was taken out? o mabey SNS is only in the N64DD version(Attachment used to play special floppy disks in the n64 bk and bt were made in to disks and carts in japan) so mabey im on to somthing..... but then agian i cant read jappanese im prrety sure it would be impossable to find thos itmes i need and we wolnt be abel to shark them:-/

LaorBR 7th August 2006 03:21 AM

There's no DD64 version of BK, and I don't see any reasons why the japanese version would have any SnS leftovers (you see, Rare is a british company).

KryptoniteJinjo 7th August 2006 03:22 AM

The Japanese version of BK came out 6 months after the U.S. version, so there's no chance of that.

Go_Nosis 7th August 2006 06:17 PM

this is pretty far down the page guys.. has anyone else noticed anything?

BriJr 7th August 2006 08:35 PM

Sorry, I'm such a n00b, but where can I get BK for my comp like most people here have? :confused:

TzTok-Jad 7th August 2006 09:24 PM

just google project64 and n64 roms. pi64 is the emulator, and a rom is a game to be emulated

collecter 7th August 2006 09:54 PM

I got an idea a hacker can try out (I can't hack whatsoever). someone talked about being able to search the games memory and find changes in before one sns item and after. my point is that someone can at least find out if there is a certain order or not and also check for anything else changing like the TTC map x.

BriJr 8th August 2006 01:24 AM


just google project64 and n64 roms. pi64 is the emulator, and a rom is a game to be emulated
Alright, thank you!

Go_Nosis 8th August 2006 01:36 AM

SO guys, i'm done checking tooie. At least for Stop n Swop. I've done alot of thinking, and came up with something.

What if Rare isnt saying anything about Stop N Swop because they, technically, can't?

Now, let's put ourselves in Rare's position for a sec. Alot of companies (believe me, this is first hand experience) will say one thing at first (usually because it sounds like a good idea for money) and then do another later.

So, rare comes up with the idea. Stop n Swop. Wow, what a great idea! Swapping games between Tooie and Kazooie to gain access to secret items in Kazooie, that, in Tooie, unlock different things. (multiplayer cheats, Bottles' Revenge, use your imagination here, but don't go too far.)

Sounds like an awesome plan, right? SO they make Kazooie. They put the items in, and make Kazooie the recieving party. Now, there are certain things that can happen, where Tooie communicates with Kazooie (probably via the 30 second memory retention, in the Nintendo 64s of old.) and the data that touches Kazooie unlocks the ice key room. Pretty sweet.

however, it involves hot swapping. Now, this is dangerous for the system, yes. No doubt about that. But also, it's dangerous to nintendo, because while we're lookin at these two games and their interaction, we're basically forgetting one thing; for this to work, the N64 needs to leave itself "open" while you hotswap, possible for upwards to half a minute.

Whats wrong with this? Let me tell you! Nintendo has patents to the N64 hardware. They dont have to reveal anything about whats going on in those glorious little chips inside of it. But, with the hot swapping idea, the console is left semi powered while no cartridge is inserted, allowing even a novice hacker to its secrets.

So why is Stop N Swop a failure? Because nintendo has patents to protect. Even now, if rare says anything, they could potentially be leading people to hacking the N64 hardware.

Bound by law, all rare can do is twist in the wind, and make it into their advantage. They completely remake tooie, taking out the activator and everything. The N64s were redesigned to further make sure that no one could get in there, by shortening the "semi powered" time from 30 seconds to 2 seconds.

So, I'm directing all attention towards Kazooie. Because more than likely, its the only game with activators left. Although, the RSA and Tower Room of Tooie still call to me, whether or not they pertain to SnS is beyond me.

*whew* going to get some nachos. Peace.

KryptoniteJinjo 8th August 2006 02:00 AM

Exactly what I've been saying all this time: There's most likely no SNS left in Tooie, but we're positive it'll be in Kazooie. If we do find something in Kazooie, then it's possible that there might just be something in tooie we can unlock with it, and if there's nothing, we just solved SNS anyways : )

Go_Nosis 8th August 2006 02:07 AM

exactly, lets just find what's left.

in other news, those nachos were great.

I'm going to go do some research, check some things out in wireframe, walking through walls and the like in Banjo Kazooie. I try not to depend on wireframe, but i'll comb the game as thoroughly as I can. Anyone have any stages or sections in kazooie that they need checked?

im gonna look for any telltale signs of change, odd textures and wireframes, that kind of stuff. I still get a creepy feeling from the transformation room..


Also, i'd like to reiterate something I previously said. I think we should keep at least some eyes on Tooie. For all we know, rare might have put something in wherever Silos 8 and 9 go, in the Ridiculously Secret Area, or the Tower LairA.

Lol, wouldn't it be funny if there was a full explanation of what was GOING to be stop and swop in one of those places?

BriJr 8th August 2006 03:18 AM

I know about the Tower Room and RSA1, but what are Silos 8 & 9? Do we know what they are, or just their names?

Also, is there a walk through walls feature for BK on PJ64?

TzTok-Jad 8th August 2006 04:28 AM

silos 8 and 9 are just that. the eighth and nienth silo you activate =.=

silo one is probally jinjo billage.

1.jinjo village
2. wooded hollow
4.pine grove
5.cliff top

thats what they probally are. 8 and 9 are unknown. perhaps leading to the RSA and tower room..?

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