The Rare Witch Project Forums - SNS update: I think I know which 4 of the 6 eggs we are supposed to get (part 2)

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- Banjo Theories & Stop 'n' Swop (https://www.therwp.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=30)

- - SNS update: I think I know which 4 of the 6 eggs we are supposed to get (part 2) (https://www.therwp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5574)

Sorry about the delay, the first few weeks back to school are always a bit chaotic... Luckily the Annual Back to School Riot at my school didn't involve any casualties (lucky, considering last year... You really just don't want to know :D)

I've now got an M code for BT. Thanks to Subdrag and Slaphappy for porting it (or rather, discovering that it didn't need to be ported at all >_>)

It doesn't stop the crashes, by a long shot, but it does slow them down (My shock at getting past the title scene was extreme) so with a bit of luck it'll makr hacking the game a bit easier:

F1000302 0002
F100030E 0005
(same in PAL and NTSC)

Again, if anyone can give us the codes for the RSA1 and Silo 8 & 9 menu options, that's be great. I'm going to try and get a moon jump for BT...

*Tries to sticky*
*doesn't work*
*Attemps to sticky again*
*People say NO to the sticky*
*Theguyoverthere gives up*

Sweet, I'm glad to hear you finally found it! Now you can start hacking it a little easier! First start with an infinate jiggies code... :)

Doesn't have to be ported... Well, I could've figured that. :D
Anyways, I hope we'll get somewhere!

Right, well I asked on AR/Dev, so we just have to wait now and hope someone can figure out the PAL Moon Jump (Gah, I don't remember BT being this.... akward???) It used to be hosted here but a lot of RWP's codes seem to have disappeared >_<

I'll have a go at hacking the SnS counter for BT's secret eggs (I have a theory at the moment, that since having the eggs / not having them is controlled by a simple counter, if there are more eggs in BT, how would the game react if I set it to, say, 4? Could be interesting to see...)

Until then, if anyone has the BT PAL moon jump, we'd really, REALLY appreciate it...

Just tried something similar to that on the ROM, Hatrick. I used the 100% complete code at the start of the game. Although the game is 100% complete, you'd need to leave the area and come back in order for the Pink Egg to dissappear from Spiral Mountain. This I took advantage of. I collected the Pink Egg and immediatly went to Heggy.

As you probably know, the 100% complete game cheat makes it so going to Heggy results in the game freezing until you turn it off. Instead, Banjo threw BOTH the blue and pink eggs into the nests, but Heggy only hatched the Pink Egg, leaving the Blue one unhatched. I tried using Kazooie to hatch it, but it didn't work.

However, the glitchyness with Heggy for the 100% complete game cheat makes this find unreliable.

We know that in Banjo-Tooie are some werid stuffs:
-Bottles'Revenge:menu,cutscene,mode
-Glowbo Cave in Cloud Cuckoland
-Radicously Secret Area 1
-Silo 8
-Silo 9
-Gruntilda's Lair(Tower Room)
-Seagull song
-Challange 16/128 jiggies
-missing Chosen One Y code
-BK base egg changed to cyan,green and red eggs

Now we know that textures for cyan,green and red eggs exists in BT.
Maybe Rare removed half of Stop N Swop?
Maybe they removed ice key,pink,blue and yellow eggs SNS connection?(small pink,blue and yellow eggs and ice key in BT are ashes of this )
But maybe half of SNS works and we can swap cyan,green and red eggs from BK to BT?
I think that there IS something in Banjo-Tooie that we not discovered yet.

Right, update time: I'm back to BK.

I wholeheartedly agree with Banjo PL above. We've only scratched the surface of BT and it need a lot more exploration.

However, BT is too hard to hack for now. SubDrag says he's trying to find the old RWP codes which were deleted by mistake, so I'm going to hold off hacking BT for a while and see if they get the codes back...

So I'm revisiting probably one of the biggest EVER discoveries in BK, hacking wise, which was forgotten about with all the chaos going on at the time (this topic was skyrocketing towards 3000 posts, and people were posting just for the sake of posting). The Cutscene Mod. I personally think that this is one of the best things we ever found for BK, and if there's anything which might help us find secret scenes, it's that code.

You might remember at the time, we never had the entire cutscene mod, we found different bits of it. I'm going to post it all in my next few posts (be warned - this is a wall of text. Those of you with no interest in hacking should probably ignore the next few...)

But to those who ARE, this could come in EXTREMELY handy, if we can compile a digit list and find the other codes involved (I always assumed a cutscene mod would be a simple, one line digit, like the "partial activator" below - obviously not so simple...)

I always said at the start that I thought secrets could be found a lot easier with a cutscene mod, and I still believe that. If there is a secret cutscene in the game, this is a good way of trying to find it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BanjoPL

There is very intresting stuff in Map Room in RBB:
TTC map-1,2,1,1 on paper
unknown island map-3,1,2,1,1 on paper

RBB full code: 3,1,2,1,1,1

Maybe there is secret code? Maybe Blackeye will tell us this code in BT...when we give him water....

actually the code 312 111 was the code you use for the whistle in rusty bucket bay to get a jiggy, don't know if you already know that...

Shouldn't this go in the other forum?

Quote:

Originally Posted by slaphappy

Sorry I didn't get a chance to post sooner today. Here's what I've run across with the Cutscene Modifiers. They are going to be a collection of sorts though, because they don't all act as one type.

Some examples of what I mean by types:

In-Level Cutscene
MMM - The Church Door Timer
Jump on it and a cutscene appears showing the door open

Out-Of-Level Cutscene
TTC - The Grunty Jiggy Switch
Jump on it and the cutscene shows a different level momentarily and then comes back to where you started.

Here is a NTSC memory address I can't quite pin down, but it is clearly an activator/state value.

With a new game state, warp over to TTC and put in this code for Cap'n Blubber's cutscene:
80367003 0002

Warp to MMM and put in this code for the church door cutscene:
80367003 0001

Other level cutscenes (but clearly not all) are activated by this as well, but I haven't put in enough time to get a handle on it. There are many more pieces to the puzzle.

As for Out-Of-Level Cutscenes, here are the addresses for the source and destination levels of the scenes shown:

Go to Cutscene Level:
80367687 00XX

Return To Original Level:
80367697 00XX
8036769B 00YY

XX = Scene Digit
YY = Level Placement

I do not have an activator location for the out-of-scene yet, so I usually just use a grunty switch for it.

It looks like all cutscenes occur at Level Placement 00, but with varying camera positions. For the cutscene camera position, it looks as though 8036768B may be the value, but messing with it usually just gives a black screen and usually disables/screws up the send back function. Weird. It maybe be some combination with 8036768F which gets populated with a unique value as well.

If I get a chance tomorrow, using Ice's suggestion, I'll see if I can convert these to PAL. Yeah, I know, it's not NTFS. *wink smiley*

And in his next post, he provided the PAL counterparts:

Quote:

I just love everyone's enthusiasm. Keep up the positive energy cause hey, you never know.

Hatrick, here are the translated PAL addresses for the Out-Of-Scene Cutscene Mod for you.

Partial Activator:
80367483

Go to Cutscene Level:
80367B07 00XX

Return To Original Level:
80367B17 00XX
80367B1B 00YY

Good luck and let me know if you stumble across anything helpful with this cutscene mess. I'll do the same.

And finally, this:
[quote]I wasn't messing around to much with the cutscene, because when you use the activator, you get strange results. Put in a value and Banjo and the objects in the level disappear. Put the value back to zero or it's original value and the objects come back but not Banjo. So I'd have to reload the level to get him back. Tedious at best.

Well, I found the location to get Banjo back and it has couple other behaviors. So if your going to investigate the activator, this will be beneficial.

NTSC
8037BFB8 00XX
00 - Banjo's Gone
01 - Banjo's Back

8037BFB9 00YY
00 - Banjo's Frozen
01 - Banjo's Movable

8037BFBA 00ZZ
00 - Banjo's Shadow's Gone
01 - Banjo's Shadow's Back

Here are the PAL counterparts:
8037C988 00XX
8037C989 00YY
8037C98A 00ZZ

At the very least it'll save some time.[quote]

Briefly, he discussed the possible operation of the cdes:

Quote:

My gut feeling is this activator works on a bit level much like the secrets address does. You can put in 02 or 03, both indicating the second bit is what the activator fires from. Also, the entire word (80367000 ntsc) is set to 0000000E during the cutscene and then 8000000E when the cutscene is complete.

So before/during/after the cutscene what we have is:

(if you use activator 02)
0000 .. 0010
0000 .. 1110
1000 .. 1110

(if you use activator 03)
0000 .. 0011
0000 .. 1111 - you get 0F instead of 0E
1000 .. 1111

We'll need to examine a lot more data to see if this proves to be true and all the bits have significance for the cutscenes.

He then moved on to the BK action states, which are outlined in the next post. He made an interesting discovery with them as well.

Quote:

Originally Posted by slaphappy

BK Activator
0037E8F4 (NTSC)
8037F2C4 (PAL)

00 - no effect
01 - Load Level: Action State set to 3
02 - Halt State (processor still executing): Action State set to 2
03 - Bad Address: Action State set to 2
04 - no effect
05 - no effect
06 - Load Level in Demo Mode: Action State set to 7
07 - Load Level: Action State set to 8
08 - Load Level in Demo Mode: Action State set to 9
09 - Load Level: Resets Game Totals to Zero: Action State set to 3
0A - Load Level: Loads Totals: Action State set to 3
0B - Load Level: Does not alter action state
0C - Load Level: Action State set to A
0D - no effect
0E - no effect
0F - no effect

BK Action States
0037E8E4 (NTSC)
0037F2B4 (PAL)

00 - Banjo Playable, Start disabled
01 - Banjo Playable, Start disabled
02 - Banjo Playable, Character Message Actions Halted
03 - Banjo Fully Playable
04 - Items Menu Overlay
05 - Banjo Playable, Takes No Damage, No Collection Action, Start disabled
06 - Banjo controlled by AI, New Level Timer Disabled
07 - Banjo controlled by AI, Demo Timer Active
08 - Bottle's Game Overlay, Banjo controlled by AI
09 - Banjo controlled by AI, takes no damage, Exiting Level Disabled, start disabled
0A - Mumbo's Hand Overlay, Banjo controlled by AI, start disabled
0B - no effect
0C - no effect
0D - no effect
0E - no effect
0F - no effect

Some of these I find very interesting and figuring out why the developers needed them is quite a task. For example, Activator 0B seems useless, but is absolutly necessary for the way the secrets are shown at the end. The activator 0C is fired when Mumbo's hand appears. BK gets action state 0A which is puts the CPU in control of him. He swims up to SI and goes in. The level is changed using 0B which leaves the action state unchanged allowing the CPU script to continue uninterrupted. That is the only place I can find that the CPU controlled Banjo actually changes level.

So, here's the kicker, and is very speculative. Repeat, unproven and very speculative. I find activator 02 and 03 quite strange. 02 has the appearance of being a freeze, but it's not. Certain disabling addresses are set and the processor continues to run, not frozen, in a looping state. To me it could possibly be the activator for the Write Data section of SNS. Which would lead me to believe activator 03 could be the Read Data counterpart. I may be completely off base about the both of these but it is not outside the realm of possibility. They are there for some reason. I'm looking into these to see what I can find.

Finally, he talked about the first (and so far, only) known SNS controller:

Quote:

Originally Posted by slaphappy

Let me pose a different idea regarding how SNS may be implemented. A theory that fits certain facts. Either by Hot or Cold Swapping, memory pak, 64DD, or by magic for all it matters, some memory addresses must be set for the BK code to react. The BK code must recognize them and go from there.

We know the items/secret areas are centered around memory location 00283400 (ntfs). I worked out the bit mapping for the secret items/area memory address. Not sure if this has been done before, values clearly have been mentioned, but this is at the bit level.

Memory: 00283400
Value: ABCD

A
1234 (bits)

B
1234 (bits)

C
1234 (bits)

D
1234 (bits)

A1 = NABNUTS EGG Available
A2 = CAPTAINS EGG Available
A3 = LOGOS EGG Available
A4 = DESERT DOOR Open

B1 = SHARKFOOD ISLAND Raised
B2 = XBARRELL Open
B3 = ICE CAVE Open
B4 = YELLOW EGG Collected

C1 = RED EGG Collected
C2 = GREEN EGG Collected
C3 = BLUE EGG Collected
C4 = PINK EGG Collected

D1 = TURQUOIE EGG Collected
D2 = ICE KEY Collected
D3 = unknown
D4 = unknown

Just set the bits of what you need and you're good to go. If you want the Yellow and Blue Eggs and Sharkfood Island rasied, use 80283400 0920 (0000 1001 0010 0000). This should help if people are still working on the 4 egg and ice key theory.

So, with this done, I'm trying to back trace through the code execution (what a pain) to see what causes 00283400 to be set. If you preset the address with a value before game launch, your value is cleared out, then what was saved during prior gameplay is loaded in. Great, fair enough. BK then launches the intro Banjo playing scene. You hit Start and you go to the Demo. Prior to the Demo launching is where it gets odd, the address is modified, bit by bit. First A1 is set, then B4 removed (the yellow egg pairing), then A2/C1, A3/C2, and so forth until all eggs are removed and all areas opened, pair by pair. So one has to wonder why the secret areas are opened during the Demo. Press start and you go to the game selection screen, with the memory address set back to what it should be.

This points to a potentially interesting possibility. I think Secret Items collection may actually happen outside of game play. When you hit start, BK may launch you to the an area to collect the item that BT/DK64 set as available.

Things that point me in that direction:

1. The secret areas being forced open during the Demo. Why bother, it's just the Demo?

2. You cannot get to gameplay without going through the Demo. I never really noticed that before. In BK you hit start and go the the Demo, not to the game selection. BT doesn't do that. If you let the opening scene cycle to the end, then it should go to the Demo. Why the double start?

3. Secret Items are saved to all three game states, or more likely to an area outside the game states. So if you collect the Ice Key in the Demo area, you will see it collected in all 3 games. This has always been a thorn issue to me, but this theory would make some sense of it.

At the moment it's only a possibility and I'll continue to work at it. There are some interesting activators that may lead to something or may lead to nothing. Scene Mod with trigger value 0006 or 0008 launches a scene in the Demo mode. They set different screen action values, 0007 and 0009 respectively, which I haven't quite figured out yet.

I'll let you know if I make more progress with this.

It stores it outside the game file or to all three game files. I speculate the first, outside. You can Scene Mod to a secret item area with Trigger 06 or 08 and the item memory state will remain unchanged. Take control of Banjo and collect the Egg and it is collected for all 3 games, even though you are playing outside a game state. You'll get FE00 + whatever item you collect saved on item collection.

The end game 100 jiggies cutscene they are forced open only when Mumbo's hand comes down showing the picture. When his hand comes up, they are set back to what you had collected. It is the same item pair comparisons. But for the other cutscenes it appears unaffected. It makes sense for the end game scene, but not for the demo.

D3 and D4 are two trailiing bits that seem to have no use or don't indicate anything. The functions don't clear those bits, so if you set them prior to the demo, you'll get FE03 instead of FE00. They may have had a use at some time, or maybe they are used for something we haven't uncovered.

I think these are the most recent major discoveries we should be looking into. I'll have a go at these tomorrow or the day after. I'll start with the cutscene mod. Help compiling the digits would REALLY be appreciated...

I'd help, but I have no controller + crap computer.

Woah. Alot of text. But you say you need all the code in a list? Sure I'm up to it. It's the most I can to for our hero in green.

Uh...'scuse me, but...shouldn't this topic be moved HERE now, with all the other Stop 'N' Swop topics?