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-   -   DK64 - Ice Key Discovery (https://www.therwp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=18876)

runehero123 23rd July 2008 03:21 AM

DK64 - Ice Key Discovery
 
It's time to reveal the activation of a long lost SNS remnant in DK64. Of course, I am talking about the ice-key that was suppose to appear in the totals menu after cold-swapping from Banjo-kazooie. To make things more clear, please watch the following video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wWLhww_IM6g

Now that you've seen the basics, let me explain how the ice-key is activated in Donkey Kong64. First, there is a value that states if the ice-key has been collected or not.

807FC839 - Icekey quantity

If the ice-key has been collected, this value will be 0x01, otherwise 0x00. When you first start up a Fresh Donkey-Kong64 cartridge(ROM) you will not have the ice-key collected. However, when you reach the following screen http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w...ro123/dk64.jpg , the state will change to "Ice-key collected" .

Once the ice-key is collected, the state cannot be changed without using a gameshark. Therefore, the ice-key would have been stuck in Dk64s total screen the same way you cannot get rid of the secret items in BKs SNS screen. It would make sense because all items in the Totals screen never go away after you use them anyways.

To activate the ice-key in the menu, use one of these codes and the value 0x0008.

807FC818 - Golden Bananas Menu Modifier
807FC819 - Battle Crowns Menu Modifier
807FC81A - Boss Keys Menu Modifier

Once you do so, you will see that the item's name appears as the Icekey, and that you have 1 / 1 icekeys collected. Makes sense seeing a s there is only one icekey you can collect ;) .

Still no sign of the ice-keys image anywhere. Don't worry though, I'm pretty close to finding that. Once I figure out how to get dk64 running correctly in nemu64, I'll investigate the ice-key code further with some ASM. Try to see what sets the ice-key to 0x01 in memory.

Coolboyman 23rd July 2008 03:35 AM

Awesome job once again rune.

torrentstorm 23rd July 2008 03:41 AM

Great this is great:)
I will now bring out my hacking tools and do anything to help you.

dmoss 23rd July 2008 04:15 AM

I'm not a hacker, or someone that follows things like that very closely or easily, but the video that you posted really surprised me! I was unaware until now that the ice wall was in Crystal Caves...I knew it was there, but unaware there was a room behind it! That alone made me go: :eek:

Also, I was interested to see that the actual image of the Ice Key could remain in DK64; how incredible is that?! To think that they were that far along in DK64's production to include an ice key is awesome; and now, the knowledge the room beyond the wall (in Crystal Caves) exists...well, that's just cool. :p

Anyhoo, awesome find, and I sure hope you can continue to get good leads on your search, Rune! :D

runehero123 23rd July 2008 04:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by torrentstorm
I will now bring out my hacking tools and do anything to help you.

Anything, eh :rolleyes

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coolboyman
Awesome job once again rune.

Thanks. It's a shame that Donkey Kong64 fails to work correctly with Nemu64. Otherwise it would be pretty simple to find the image that the ice-key menu item uses. It's a possibility that the ice-keys image still exists in dk64. After all, my 2d-image modifier doesn't cover all of the images(camera seems to be missing).

I think this is more important though, because it could reveal potential information about any SNS functionality in Dk64. Even if it never made it past testing stages.

[EDIT]
Quote:

Originally Posted by Dmoss
Also, I was interested to see that the actual image of the Ice Key could remain in DK64; how incredible is that?! To think that they were that far along in DK64's production to include an ice key is awesome; and now, the knowledge the room beyond the wall (in Crystal Caves) exists...well, that's just cool.

Oh er...my apologies. That room is normally there in the final version of Dk64. You have to use Chunky to get through the wall if I can remember correctly. I just used it as an example of what the Ice-wall may have looked like :p .

Kahuna360 23rd July 2008 04:21 AM

Dude I checked out your vid.
Its effing historical man.
Bravo bud, Il tell my grandchildren of this discovery :P

Klungo 23rd July 2008 04:21 AM

What I'd like to know is what the ice key did in DK64. Maybe we can still activate something through hacking.

dmoss 23rd July 2008 04:24 AM

I'm alarmed that I didn't realize that; it's not your fault! XD

Comrade Bear 23rd July 2008 04:25 AM

Wowzers. This is pretty ground-breaking.

ParadoxAuthor 23rd July 2008 04:26 AM

I don't think there's really that much of a chance of something being activated, but I figure if Rune found this little remnant of the Ice Key, it has to be real.

Evandy 23rd July 2008 05:50 AM

Wow. We're still finding new stuff today.:rwpunch

Deltonax 23rd July 2008 06:02 AM

Wow, I can't believe this.This is a historical moment!

EDIT: it is also my 444th post!

KEWB 23rd July 2008 06:30 AM

I had heard some people suggest sns connections to DK64 before, but they never carried enough evidence for me to believe they were actually connections. This one though...excellent find. You win a cookie. Enjoy.:D

meta-knight 23rd July 2008 08:15 AM

and to all the people who thought we had found everything about sns

Strandomguy 23rd July 2008 09:00 AM

Wow great find :D

It's still good to hear that even after 7 years of hacking we are still finding stuff

BanjoPL 23rd July 2008 10:34 AM

GREAT WORK RUNE...AGAIN!
GREAT DISCOVERY!

Fox McBanjo 23rd July 2008 11:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by meta-knight (Post 375807)
and to all the people who thought we had found everything about sns

We've already said numerous times about the DK64 Ice Key. We said there was nothing left to find in BK and BT, not DK.

Also, rune, this is fantastic. :thumbsup:

ssj 23rd July 2008 11:56 AM

THIS IS AWESOME!!!!

Can someone please convert the code to PAL?

Id like to test it on my actual n64

good job rune

Skill 23rd July 2008 01:18 PM

Oh wow really cool stuff rune!

SubDrag 23rd July 2008 01:36 PM

Great work! Finally someone uncovered some more proof of DK64. I'm going to investigate this more tonight. I also relied on the "All Items" code, which I can't seem to find right now (can you post an unlock everything/all levels unlocked code for DK64), and that never included an ice key. I always maintained DK64 was the true ice key SNS in Crystal Caverns (see my DK64 <> BK special).

Now, Nemu64 DOES run Donkey Kong 64, albeit poorly. Put on this code as soon as you start: 817444E6 00AB, keep hitting start and it will start you in Kong's house eventually, then turn it off once you get there. It plays very poorly, but it is enough to do some ASM hacking (that's how I hacked the moonjump).

xxjoesusxx 23rd July 2008 01:55 PM

excellent job, i've been saying for a while on here that we should keep looking through dk64, only to have cbm drop the hate-hammer on me.

nice to see a thread with some actual sluething and information in it, great job.

ssj 23rd July 2008 01:55 PM

the code works fine on project too

Barrelman 23rd July 2008 01:58 PM

Awesome stuff runehero123!! I hope you can find out more.

Mister Mxyzptlk 23rd July 2008 02:09 PM

Brilliant, Rune!!!! :D

I am so excited now we can find out what's left of SNS in DK64, too!

Quote:

Originally Posted by meta-knight (Post 375807)
and to all the people who thought we had found everything about sns

...In the Banjo games... :rolleyes:
But it's a shame so few people know about the DK64 SNS remnants, even though it may have been intended to be the real SNS in the first place.

Anyway, awesome, runehero123! :thumbsup:

runehero123 23rd July 2008 08:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Subdrag
Now, Nemu64 DOES run Donkey Kong 64, albeit poorly. Put on this code as soon as you start: 817444E6 00AB, keep hitting start and it will start you in Kong's house eventually, then turn it off once you get there. It plays very poorly, but it is enough to do some ASM hacking (that's how I hacked the moonjump).

Wow, thats great! Looks like there is some hope for fully activating the ice-key with it's respective image after all :) . I had always wondered how you hacked out the moonjump. Thought you used the actual N64 with a gameshark that was capable of connecting to your computer :p .

Quote:

Originally Posted by Subdrag
Great work! Finally someone uncovered some more proof of DK64. I'm going to investigate this more tonight. I also relied on the "All Items" code, which I can't seem to find right now (can you post an unlock everything/all levels unlocked code for DK64), and that never included an ice key. I always maintained DK64 was the true ice key SNS in Crystal Caverns (see my DK64 <> BK special).

I noticed, from your "dk special" it mentioned that the Ice-key was found in the totals menu. Decided to find a menu modifier using renegade64 with project64. I found that, but it didn't let me select the ice-key item(cuz it hadn't been activated). Therefore, I just started changing random values at addresses nearby. I finally came across one that changed the "Battle Crown" item into the Blueprints. Tried out the value 0x08 and noticed that I had the Ice-key in my inventory :) .

Finding the value that changes the amount of Ice-keys you have was just a coincidence. I started playing around with the values nearby when I noticed I had over 9000 / 1 icekeys! :p .

ssj 23rd July 2008 09:12 PM

Is it possible that in order to get it working, you dont just need the Icekey which we now have, but another set of coldswapped data from bk?

runehero123 23rd July 2008 09:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ssj
Is it possible that in order to get it working, you dont just need the Icekey which we now have, but another set of coldswapped data from bk?

Can't really say how the cold-swap data from BK would have worked during the testing stages between BK - DK64. For one, their may have only been one flag for the ice-key. Assuming the eggs were not present in BK at that time. It's possible that the flag data was different then it is now. Hopefully looking further into dk64's ice-key code will reveal more information about how it worked on the recieving end :) .

[Edit] Well, we already know how it worked in theory (and fact) but finding it in DK64 would be pretty amazing.

Strandomguy 24th July 2008 08:08 AM

There is just one thing bothering me: the image for the ice key is the same as the boss key image. Just to settle my mind, could you possibly get a screenshot of the ice key and the boss keys in the same image please?

ssj 24th July 2008 11:21 AM

The great thing is that if you manage to 100% get to the bottom of this then the unaxplanable part of sns which rare will never explain will be realised. The other part will more than likely be revealed in kazooie and tooie arcade

also has anyone tried looking at the mystery option with the ice key activated? Does anything change?

Kowz 24th July 2008 11:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Strandomguy (Post 376734)
There is just one thing bothering me: the image for the ice key is the same as the boss key image. Just to settle my mind, could you possibly get a screenshot of the ice key and the boss keys in the same image please?


Read the topic; the actual image hasn't been found yet. :/

@SSJ: It's extremely unlikely that Rare will reveal anything to do with the original SnS in the new arcade releases; if there is some form of SnS between the BK and BT XBLA versions, then it's not likely to resemble what it would have originally. The new releases won't solve anything in terms of SnS's original intentions.

ssj 24th July 2008 01:03 PM

If you change 0008 to FFFF you get ''NO''
If you change 0008 to FFFE you get ''YES''
FFFD- TRY AGAIN
FFFC- ALL kongs
FFFB- Chunky kong
FFFA- Tiny Kong
FFF9- LANKY kong
FFF8- Diddy kong
FFF7- Donkey kong
FFF6- Quit, Yes no?
FFF5- Are you sure
FFF4- Totals
FFF3- Exit to level
FFF2- Restart
FFF1- Quit game
FFF0- Exit Level
FFEF- Save
FFEE- Return
FFED- Freeze
FFEC- Freeze
FFEB-Freeze
FFEA- !
FFE9 Freeze

Vect 01 24th July 2008 09:35 PM

I'm not sure, naturally I'm skeptical, and something's telling me that it might be simply an accidental re-name.

Don't get me wrong, I WANT this to be SnS, but I never rule out a possibility.

I'm not hacker, but I'll do my best to help you in any way that I can, that is, if you want my help :)

chillywilly42 24th July 2008 10:28 PM

Amazing job rune! Just goes to show you the more effort you put in to something(in this case SNS discoveries) the more you get out! :)

ssj 24th July 2008 10:56 PM

Ive been looking at the menus table in artmoney today rune, tried changing a few things but had no luck

Avarice 25th July 2008 12:08 AM

Looked just like a text change to me...

Sojiroh 25th July 2008 12:24 AM

Rune, as always, you fail to disappoint me

Kazooie64 25th July 2008 12:26 AM

Nice job!

ssj 25th July 2008 12:38 AM

more menu research

807FC8** 0008

00- Freezes at jungle japes menu
01-Nothing
02- same till 08
08- Puts the C buttons behind the text
09- c buttons closer to text

maybe these 2 digits are the ones we need to focus on. maybe we need to keep the last four digits as 0008, which works as both text AND the 2d image for the Ice key. Somehwere within the previous 2 digits (between 00 and FF) The could be a 2d image mod for the totals menu, and thats where we'll find our ice key image.

runehero123 25th July 2008 03:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dylan yoshi
Looked just like a text change to me...

Its nothing like a text change. All that would be is taking text values and replacing them with some other text. Like the ice-keys. The thing is, if it was only a text change the ice-key wouldn't show 1/1 collected.

With those values ssj showed, they are just different menu ID's for different text and items that are displayed elsewhere in the menu. The value I provided 0x0008 will display the Icekey menu item on the screen.

SSj, I'm going to try and get more than just an image mod for the ice-key. I want to use ASM to try and fully activate the Ice-key in the menu. Not just it's image.

From looking further with the asm it seems like there is an op-code(command) that adds the value 0x0001 to R0(always 0x0000) and stores it to the ice-key amount address during that screen I showed in the first post.

My theory is that, you always have 1/1 ice-keys but you need to swap the ice-key flag from bk in order to activate it in the menu. So figuring out how the menu activates other items (aka golden bananas, battle crowns) in the menu through ASM should lead me to this information.

[Edit] SUBDRAG, the "have everything unlocked" code is provided in the Project: 64 1.6 cheat menu. Just grab the have golden bananas or whatever for Dk64. I haven't seen a code that unlocks everything though..

Strandomguy 25th July 2008 11:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kowz (Post 376804)
Read the topic; the actual image hasn't been found yet. :/

Oops sorry, i didn' mean that. what i meant is the 'symbol' in the total page that shows the ice key. What i mean is if you can have the boss key AND the ice key on the same total page


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