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-   -   SNS update: I think I know which 4 of the 6 eggs we are supposed to get (https://www.therwp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1287)

ChillyDark 6th June 2006 04:29 AM

This is the day, I've waited for.
 
Two things:
Off Topic: Can somebody PM, the code for Pyramid Image Modifier, I used Hex Workshop, but to no avail.
On Topic: You Slaphappy, are making prgress here, if Ice messes around with this one, he could uncover SNS. Or you or Hartick, good work.

pinkbull 6th June 2006 05:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hatrickpatrick
Well folks, this topic has been around for almost a year, and I for one can't believe how far we've come since then and how much this topic has exploded and branched out. It seems like only yesterday we only had vague thoughts of combing the game inch by inch looking for secrets, whereas now, we've gone beyond even that. I know I'm beginning to sound like a broken record, but I really do feel we're getting somewhere here. The reason my end of this has been so sloppy of late is simply that I have been incredibly busy. I had exams, I had a busy start to "fun year" at school (Transition year in Ireland: We have hardly any classes and instead set up mini companies, do work experience outside school, get career advice, take interests tests, etc etc etc) which is actually a lot more time-consuming than normal school. On top of that, there's rock 'n roll to consider (I'm trying to form a band. Save me the embarrassment and don't even ask about it >_>)

However, I finally woke up yesterday to what I've been missing due to letting this place slip further into the backround of my mind. And so, seeing how slow the place is getting at the moment, I'm going to post a list.

We've had some great theories along the way. And some amazing discoveries. Unfortunatly, some of the biggest discoveries and best theories we've ever had here were engulfed by the speed of the place at the time and left behind. This is a list of unfinished threads which have in them discoveries that were made and forgotten about, but which I believe to be very important to this whole business. And I think forgetting about these discoveries would be a big mistake.

I've split this into two categories. And the topics I want people to pay particular attention to are the Beta Spiral Mountain one (which I still think could be a massive, massive discovery) and the Fungus Forest one, which has some very interesting evidence in it for a connection with FP.

***IMPORTANT DISCOVERIES***

Here I list the threads which seemed, to me, to have extremely relevant information in them, but were abandoned and forgotten about. These are listed in order of how big the discoveries were, and personally I think we should keep looking into some of these...

The Gobi's Walley Topic - This one has two discoveries, one being the unexplained appearance of question marks on GV's walls, the other being about the Ice Key wall. Apparently it's meant to slide open rather than smash.

BETA spiral mountain level discovered, hidden in BK's instant warp as a crash digit - This one, I think, is probably a lot more important than we realised at the time, as it's one of the few unexplained locations in BK which doesnt seem to bear relation to any part of the game and *could* be the setting for some hidden cutscene or event. We never actually found out what it was for, and it could still have things we don't know about. Looks very promising indeed.

The topic which started off all the excitement about FP possibly having the link to Fungus forest. There is still a great deal of controversy over the existance of fungus forest. I myself find it fairly unlikely that an entire level could be hidden in memory, but there is a lot of evidence in here to support just that. well worth the read.

*Worth a look, but probably insignificant*
The discovery of the beta JRL pipe - I think it's fairly safe to say that it was just a duplicate of the existing JRL pipe left in for some unknown reason.

Banjooie believes he has discovered an extra piece of land in spiral mountain which is unused by the game - Still not quite sure what that was, but I think the general consensus was that it was a glitch

Also, I feel I owe everyone an apology over the demo control codes. Again, I sort of forgot about them after my digits list became seriously innacurate and complicated... I might just post the addresses, with a vague description of what each digit CAN do. pinning them down is just too difficult.

So merry christmas everyone, have a great one!

Hatrickpatrick posted this quite awhile ago. There are some things here that may help or just plain interesting but I thought everyone should know. This isn't anything new but might've been forgotton or over looked. And if you have spare time read all of this if you haven't allready. There might be somthing over looked or insperational for a huge leap in SnS. Happy hunting :)

Go_Nosis 6th June 2006 08:46 PM

heres a quick thought. BETA spiral mountain is basically a place where a cutscene took place, according to Hatrick's hypothesis. Well, that would mean what its *ALMOST* another stage, without showing up on the list of levels.

Sorry if that's confusing. hmm. I guess what I'm saying is that it's a whole other map, whether you can walk on it or not, that doesn't show up in any debug menu or anything, a "lost map" as it were.

Maybe there are (or were) cutscenes from Fungus Forest that took place on a seperate map from the level? It's a long shot, but hey, if we could find that, then we'd know what the stage looked like, at least.

qwertybub3 7th June 2006 12:09 AM

The thing about Konga is; he can be hit more than 100 times and throw up to ten oranges at once. But does he have to do with Stop 'N' Swop?

mikesgm6 8th June 2006 04:35 AM

Meh heres just a quick little note I should have posted long ago when I first saw this topic
I wanted to say that THis is the order I think it should be
Pink egg
Ice Key
Blue egg
====
Pink egg is slow after ice key but then spins faster when obtained blue egg.
then both the blue egg and pink egg retain the same speed as eatchother

Since I saw that they started moving at same speed as eatchother then I thought you were supposed to get bt and figure out how to get the other 3 without cheats :P as rare intended

as for that old discovery on the spiral mountain thing I don't think theres anything left to that

Campusanis 8th June 2006 12:50 PM

Actually I don't think that the spinning speed of the eggsis important in some way, isn't it just pure randomness?
By the way: Did anyone point out that the eggs and the key are not stored in one save game? I mean, you can only collect them once with one game and the SNS menu always appears, even if you start a new game. I don't want to make things more complicated than they are already, but this could mean that we're supposed to collect one item with one save and the others with another save. Or is this technically impossible, I'm not sure?

Oh, and on another note: Did anyone notice a secret level mentioned in the DK64 manual? Something like Cranky's Barrels!? I remember, back in the days I phoned Nintendo and they told me, it was a joke in the manual. The funny thing is, when I asked them about "Mr.X" from the DKC 2 player's guide, they said the exact same thing. ;)
Could this be the DK64 SNS secret which was supposed to be activated by the ice key?

EDIT: Okay, just read the original English text, where it says 2D etc., so it is DK Arcade...

hatrickpatrick 8th June 2006 12:52 PM

Ok hold on, too much to take in all at once (never thought I'd say that again in this thread, well done guys we're getting places now!)

Quote:

Partial Activator:
80367483

Go to Cutscene Level:
80367B07 00XX

Return To Original Level:
80367B17 00XX
80367B1B 00YY
What does the "Partial activator" do and what digits can I use with it, do you know?

I'll post the demo control codes sometime soon I guess, I might try and find out a BIT more about how they work first...

I'll try these codes out today. Sounds brilliant, this could be the boost we've been waiting for!

Gaming Master2k 8th June 2006 01:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Campusanis
Did anyone point out that the eggs and the key are not stored in one save game? I mean, you can only collect them once with one game and the SNS menu always appears, even if you start a new game. I don't want to make things more complicated than they are already, but this could mean that we're supposed to collect one item with one save and the others with another save. Or is this technically impossible, I'm not sure?

I am purely guessing here BUT this is how I think it would work. Once an item is collected in any save game it will write a value to a location that is not save slot dependent and is read by all saves. This (from my point of view) would mean there is no way to tell what save game wrote to that address (and therefore say what save the item was collected in). Of course if Rare did want to do this I believe it would be possible but it would require using quite a few memory addresses (I'd be estimating at about a maximum of 5040 addresses to allow for all possible combinations of items in save states. Assuming one address per combination, of course this can be reduced to by half if one 8 bit address (WORD) is used to store to possible combinations (2 Half Words), based on the known SnS address using a half word for all it's data it's possible).

My belief is that they wouldn't use that many addresses (Even if you cut it down further by using other techniques it's got to reduce the number by quite a lot) however I could be wrong.

I hope that answered (or at least partly answered) your question and made sense.

slaphappy 8th June 2006 04:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hatrickpatrick
What does the "Partial activator" do and what digits can I use with it, do you know?

I called the address a partial activator because it's involved in some cutscenes but not others. And after a cutscene completes, the Double Word seems to store state information. Which implies there may be a sequential timing to cutscenes.

As for actual values, no I don't have them mapped. In MMM it's 01. In TTC use 02. I think in MM use 04, but the cutscene is very delayed. I've used it to trigger a cutscene in SM and BGS, as well as in the Gameshow, but I don't have the values with me. I've been using trial and error.

There is clearly more to this puzzle and I see why it's been so elusive.

Quote:

Originally Posted by hatrickpatrick
I'll post the demo control codes sometime soon I guess, I might try and find out a BIT more about how they work first...

Still not sure what you mean by the demo codes, unless you are referring to the different AI states that take control of Banjo. I'll post my action state mapping later tonight. It leads to some intruiging speculation.

Quote:

Originally Posted by hatrickpatrick
I'll try these codes out today. Sounds brilliant, this could be the boost we've been waiting for!

Please do. I'm not so sure the address conversion I did is what you are looking for. If you can confirm they work for you, I can post a closure to this thread: BK Scene Mod Typo?. Otherwise I need to figure out what wrong.

Go_Nosis 8th June 2006 05:54 PM

huh. dunno if this has been discussed before, but what ARE those pictures on the GbtG whiteboard, anyway? not the 0000+key=?, but those diagrams right near that? can someone who owns the game do a snap, or a quick sketch for me? also, sorry for interrupting the posts of these master hackers, keep at it, guys!

hatrickpatrick 8th June 2006 06:16 PM

The demo control codes do 2 different things.
1: The first one controls the different CPU/human states banjo can be in. An example is this: On most levels, 03 is human controlled, 08 is CPU controlled and controls him the way the CPU would in the opening demos, 0A is CPU controlled but it controls him as he is controlled in the SnS photos at the end of the game, and if used on a level other than one of the photograph levels (TTC, GV, FP) will crash the game. That one is easy enough to map.

The other one, however, is a complete nightmare. It's a sequence of addresses which seem to control individual addresses. If you put in the wrong combination of numbers banjo goes crazy and executes random moves over and over. One value for the first of these addresses starts Bottle's puzzle game wherever you are, for example. It would be useful to understand how these work.

hatrickpatrick 8th June 2006 06:20 PM

Yeah slaphappy I can tell you straight away, you're absolutely right. That drove me nuts when I first started hacking, I couldn't figure out why the addresses didnt work, in the end I had to hack them myself to get the correct ones. The correct addresses are

8037F2C4 = trigger, set to 01 to reload scene / load scene as in next two addresses
8037F2C5 = level - sets the level / room you are currently in.
8037F2C6 = entry point - sets the door you come in through. Set to 00 to appear, usually in the middle os the room.

slaphappy 8th June 2006 06:45 PM

Ok, great! I was worried the conversions to PAL I did were going to be useless to you.

As for the demo codes, we are talking the same thing. I've mapped out quite a bit with the action states and activators. I will post it all when I get home later, but I can tell you there are multiple CPU states which have different activators. Activator 06 sets action state 08, 08 sets 09, 0C sets 0A. I needed to map this to get a feel for what the developers were doing.

I'm very curious as to what you are talking about in your second paragraph. I've noticed Banjo acting erratically during some CPU states, repeating moves over and over, but just figured it was because the AI data hadn't been loaded correctly.

lamentofking 8th June 2006 10:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slaphappy
Ok, great! I was worried the conversions to PAL I did were going to be useless to you.

As for the demo codes, we are talking the same thing. I've mapped out quite a bit with the action states and activators. I will post it all when I get home later, but I can tell you there are multiple CPU states which have different activators. Activator 06 sets action state 08, 08 sets 09, 0C sets 0A. I needed to map this to get a feel for what the developers were doing.

I'm very curious as to what you are talking about in your second paragraph. I've noticed Banjo acting erratically during some CPU states, repeating moves over and over, but just figured it was because the AI data hadn't been loaded correctly.

if the first time you yet to succseed, try and try again.

killamanjaro 8th June 2006 11:13 PM

i dont own a GS or AR for n64 and i have the pink, blue, and red eggs is there anything i can do to help u guys look for the remainders of SNS????


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