Why do Final bosses/missions suck so much?
 

So I've decided to draw this conversation out of the random thought thread and into general gaming.

I've just finished up the Thief Reboot and Splintter Cell Blacklist and both had awful final gameplay sequences. Story wise they were okay, but gameplay wise they sucked ass. Thief goes for a final boss fight sort of thing instead of a difficult heist, and Blacklist has you let all of the hostages die so you can have a boss fight as opposed to a challenging hostage situation. Both became lost in there own stories and the endings suffered because of it. Instead we get a flashy light show that can be easily beaten in 5 minutes with no challenge.

Thing is this doesn't have to be the way it works. Portal 1 & 2, Uncharted 2, Halo Reach, Bioshock Infinite, and even Watch_Dogs manage to not let story get in the way of delivering a satisfying final mission that is a culmination of all the skills you've learned. And while Portal 1 & 2 and Uncharted 2 don't put all of your skills to the test, they take what you've been doing and put you in a situation that uses what you've learned in a new way which still offers a challenge.

Now I'm certainly not saying you should force in a challenging final mission if it doesn't fit, Bioshock is an example of how that can flop, but is it so hard to ask for the gameplay to take precedent over story when it comes to the end. I should leave a game not only talking about the story, but feeling like I've accomplished something as as a gamer. Good games can do both.

So I dunno. Talk about games that have really shitty ending sequences because of the story, and ones that managed to pull it off regardless, and keep your spoilers spoiler tagged.

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Personally I think Ocarina of Time is the a perfect example of a game losing itself to it's story. I wasn't hugely invested in the plot so when the fight with Ganon beast took place I easily beat it and forgot about it. Zelda being heavily narrative driven has given it a handicap few other Nintendo games have in that the story needs wrapping up as well as the game. Sure Mario will always face Bowser, but there is never a need to explain how Bowser grew to that massive size or is a cat for some reason, at least not in the main games bar Sunshine.

Yeah I know, Hag 1 right? :p

Hag 1 is the hardest thing ever, I hate it.

All Rare games have awesome final bosses. Gruntilda, Skedar Leader, Zhang Li, Heinrich, Wizpig, Baron Von Ghoul... really, all of them. Except Viva Pinata, but how could a final boss fit in it?

I just think all of you are playing the wrong games. *ignores the HAG 1 comments considering it is a beauty of a boss*

I can think of plenty of amazing final bosses/levels:

• Banjo-Kazooie - Gruntilda
• Banjo-Tooie - HAG 1
• Sonic Adventure - Perfect Chaos
• Sonic Adventure 2 - The Finalhazard
• Sonic Adventure (Sonic's story) - Egg Viper
• Pikmin 2 - Titan Dweevil
• Legendary Starfy's final boss
• Ape Escape's final boss
• Paper Mario: TTYD - Shadow Queen
• Pikmin -Emperor Bulbax
• Super Smash Bros. Melee - Giga Bowser, Master Hand and Crazy Hand
• Sonic Unleashed - Perfect Dark Gaia (although the fights with regular Dark Gaia are a royal bitch)
• Starfox 64 - Andross
• LOZ: Majora's Mask - Majora
• Sonic the Hedgehog 2 - Death Egg Robot
• Sonic the Hedgehog 3 - Big Arms
• Sonic the Hedgehog 1 - Final Zone
• Diddy Kong Racing - Wizpig
• Grabbed by the Ghoulies - Baron Von Ghoul
• Drawn to Life's final boss
• Sonic Rush - Exception (Final Zone)
• Pokemon - The Elite Four/Champions (some are better than others)

I think a large part of the problem is that they're really underwhelming, or unsatisfying. A lot of times, a final boss just feels like something that's slightly harder than all of the other bosses you've fought, or something, and that leads to them feeling disconnected from the game. A good example of this, I think, is the bowser fight at the end of Super Mario Sunshine. It's like, not really anything special, you don't really use anything you learned from the game (aside from the standard mechanics) to fight bowser, he's just kind of there. It's not super satisfying to defeat him.

I agree with your post, Breegull.
A final boss should have the player take all of the information and skills that they have come to learn and discover, and use it to get an advantage over the final boss and to fight it, but a lot of games really fail to do this, or they shoehorn in things and it feels bad. I feel like its hard to do this well in a game such as Super Mario Sunshine, but it's not impossible. Portal 2 managed to do a good job with it. RPGs almost always manage to do well with this, since your character is a character that (normally) has access to all of the stuff that they have accumulated. I think a lot of games get the atmosphere of the final fight down really well, but don't make it fun or interesting at all.

Xenoblade Chronicles, I think, is the perfect example of a game that gets a final boss down fantastically. The build-up, the plot twists, the setting, it has a perfect final boss sequence.

Sometimes I like when final bosses are fun to fight, but not necessarily challenging. It makes me feel like the hero actually grew during the game, using all their abilities and power, now being a 'master' of whatever they are good at to defeat the evil. Sometimes it can be both, like in Banjo Tooie.

Then there are games like Halo that toss out the idea of a final boss in return for an action sequence that feels just as epic as defeating a large villain, or sometimes even greater. I can't really say I've been disappointed by many game endings, so I'm gonna say you've just been playing mediocre games.

Some genres just do bosses better than others. Thief and Blacklist are kinda bad games to expect boss fights in, since one is a stealth game and the other is a stealth game that can't decide if it wants to be a shooter instead. Typically combat in stealth games is something you want to avoid or leave to only one-on-one since enemies can easily overpower you. Forcing you into combat isn't something that tests your skills in a stealth game.
Shooters often have problems with bosses too as weapons are usually hitscan and enemies die in just a few shots. Classic shooters like Doom don't have this problem since they use projectiles over hitscan and have more varied enemy types, and some modern shooters like Alpha Protocol forgo realism for the sake of more interesting bosses.

I don't think story has much to do with, although that isn't to say that some games aren't writing themselves into a hole when they want an epic final showdown against the hero and the villain yet they've already established that one or two bullets are enough to kill anyone.

Final missions and last bosses can be absolutely totally ****ing amazing if it works.

If the game has been building up to this final encounter, or you've been expecting it at all, and the developers are up to the task of making it a satisfying and fun conclusion, it can work. But they can't throw something out of left field. Unless it's really, really awesome.

Batman: Arkham Asylum has a bad last boss because it was unexpected, and didn't really fit with the Joker's character. There were different ways they could have handled it, but instead they chose to completely isolate the last boss, thematically, from the rest of the game.

It was like if you played through the entirety of Max Payne, and then the last boss had Nicole Horne taking steroids and suddenly turn into the Incredible Hulk and you had to run around shooting her as she chased you on an airplane wing. Speaking of which, Max Payne is a good example of a game that knew how to have an awesome conclusion without having a real last boss of any kind because it had a really awesome final chapter.

Now, an example of a good last boss is the final boss of Metal Gear Rising: Revengeance. He's hard as shit, taking off huge parts of your health with single hits from his attacks. The only way you'll be able to beat him is if you've learned how the game works: Parrying, Dodging, Blade Mode, etc. If you're bad at the game, he'll kick your ass. If you're good at the game, it's absolutely ****ing amazing holy shit. Not to mention that basically everything at this point of the game has been incredibly, totally ****ing awesome.

Also, Metal Slug 3 is another game with pretty much the best final boss ever. In fact, there are a lot of games with the best final bosses ever. Thing is, they're almost always action games, or shooting games. Stealth games can't really have any bosses.

So when stealth games shove them in, it never works. (See: Deus Ex Human Revolution) When games just make last bosses damage sponges, it never works. When games make last bosses just somewhat stronger enemies, it never works. (See: Quake 2) And when games make last bosses that just require simple puzzles to be solved, it doesn't always work so well. (See: Quake 1) But a lot of developers just don't put in the time or effort to make last bosses fun and unique to fight, so they end up being pretty shit.

Deus Ex isn't really a stealth game though, or at least the first one wasn't.

Thing is I didn't expect a boss fight in either. I expected a final mission of high quality. Neither are straight up boss fights. Thief has yo collecting 3 things while staying out of the moving lights and Blacklist has you staying out of the light and running at the bad guy. They don't drop the stealth setup, but they don't offer an ultimate challenge.

Story can cause poor endings. If the game is caught up in it's own story it can lead the game to segments that don't work, and this problem usually impacts endings. The game is to focused on a cinematic conclusion instead of one that's fun. Not to say they can't go hand in hand, but games like Assassin's Creed 3 and 4 for instance were so focused on making cool ending sequences they forgot to make them any bit difficult.

While I can't argue with some of those either because I agree or have never played them, I disagree with both of these. Baron Von Ghoul was just another baddy. Not only do I barely remember him, but he really didn't feel like the ultimate culmination of everything but the story. It's been awhile though.

Melee though I have to at least disagree with Master Hand. he entirely changes how you approach the fight because of his stamina based health. Sure your control the same, but you won't be meteor smashing him. It's the same sort of change you'd find between stock and timed fights. One is a test of endurance and the other forces you to go at it. It's certainly an epic fight, but it's merely serviceable.

I wouldn't say the games are mediocre just because of the ending. I include the original Bioshock in my list of flubbed final segments as well and I'd still recommend the game. Both just bombed hard at the end. The journey was fun, the destination however just sucked.

Y'know Flagman has some pretty bitching bosses, too. If there's anything in the game that I'm proud of it's the final bosses.

That and World 3 is bootiful it mak me ***

I think someone should make an incredibly deep, story-rich RPG with lots of complex morality and interesting characters, and then once you reach the end it turns into a Bayonetta-style action game and you have to blow up a giant robotic space dragon god on top of a magic skyscraper on the moon that is now covered in molten lava, and the normally calm ambient music turns into the opening theme of Stardust Crusaders.

Then you beat the space dragon, and after the sun goes supernova and turn into a giant space dinosaur that finishes off the space dragon with one punch, you sit through a Metal Gear Solid 2-style reflection on life, and then a black screen appears with the words TRUE ENDING.

Because they take everything that you've learned throughout the game and flush it down the toilet in most cases, leaving you with a lack-luster battle to the death that nobody felt was hardly as epic as they'd hoped for.

Or because you saw it in the f***ing trailer. SERIOUS GAME TRAILER PEOPLE, STOP DOING THIS.

I think the final boss of Metal Gear Rising is pretty goddamn amazing and if you don't agree then let's agree to agree that you're dumb