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Banjo Theories & Stop 'n' Swop SNS? Bottle's Revenge? Share your thoughts on the mysteries of the Banjo series and discuss the new Stop 'n' Swop features in Nuts and Bolts and the XBLA games

 
 
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  #1  
Old 22nd April 2008, 03:39 AM
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runehero123 runehero123 is offline
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You want the truth?

You can't handle the truth! But hopefully you can handle another one of my ridiculously long theories . Your even treated to a movie at the end so be sure to grab some pop-corn .

We are all puzzled as to why the SNS data seems to be "stuck" in memory, and why it can't be removed without a cheat device. However, it has given me a great deal of information on how Stop N Swop truly work's, and may be the truth we've been seeking all these years. So once again, get ready for another Rune theory backed with ton's of research and evidence.

Let's start by taking a look at this picture

[idiot]
*Yah sorry, I kinda deleted the picture somehow...:o* Don't worry, it's still shown at different parts in the video. So yah, just try and make the best out of the theory without the pic, sorry . *
[/idiot]

As you can see, there are four thing's at play here. These are the sandcastle code, SNS Variable, BK Flag Data, and EEPROM. This is how Stop N Swop act's normally.

You start by entering a sandcastle code that opens one of the secret area's. Upon doing so, you get a cut-scene of the area, and it changes what I call the SNS VAriable(trigger). The SNS variable will then write information to EEPROM which is the little chip on the inside of your BK cart that store's game save information.

Next, you go and collect the secret item in the area you unlocked. When the item is collected the SNS variable changes. However, this time besides the data that is written to EEPROM, a flag is also written/stored at the end of the RDRAM's memory.

Now, here is the important part. When you turn off the N64, all the SNS data is still stored in EEPROM on your cartridge (we've known this). So, when you first start up Banjo-Kazooie the data from EEPROM is written to the SNS VAriable. This data include's which area's have been unlocked, and what item's collected. Cool right? Not exactly, how would BT's flag's successfully affect the SNS variable(unlock secret areas) without being written over by the data stored in EEPROM? The flag's could not be written to the SNS Variable before EEPROM write's to it because the EEPROM would write over any data set by BT's flags, and nothing is written to the sandcastle variable AFTER the EEPROM writes to it.

The only way BT's flag's could have any effect on the Sandcastle variable is if it is read at the same time as the data in EEPROM. This means that at some point before data is written to SNS variable, that the BT Flags and data from EEPROM would have to be combined together before the data is stored to SNS address. Make sense?

Other than that, there has never been any evidence of Banjo-Kazooie checking for Flags set by BT on Startup. If it did, the most likely place to look would be in the area where BK store's it's flags for BT to read (at the end of memory). I've tried doing Break-Point Reads on Boot-up but BK apparently doesn't check for anything stored around the Flag area.

Therefore, my conclusion is that Banjo-Tooie never was meant to set any flag's in memory for Banjo-Kazooie to read on startup. This means that Stop-N-Swop is a one way cold-swap from Banjo-Kazooie to Banjo-Tooie. In Banjo-Tooie, you would be given one of the secret sandcastle code's and would need to enter this into Banjo-Kazooie to unlock the secret area's. After collecting the ice-key or one of the egg's, a flag is set into memory, thus allowing you to cold-swap this information to BT.

Now, let's address some counter-arguments:

Q)Couldn't BT just effect the SNS address directly?

A)Nice try, but this wouldn't work. Data from EEPROM would write over any value stored in the SNS address on boot-up of Banjo-kazooie.

Q)Rare said that using a gameshark or sandcastle code's would make stop n swop "not work". So Maybe there is a seperate SNS variable then the one that the sandcastle code's use.

A)Seperate SNS Variable? I think not, try moonjumping to collect the ice-key without entering one of the sandcastle code's. It still affects the same SNS variable. So what reason would there be to assume that unlocking the area's would use a seperate code? It doesn't make sense, thus there can only be one address for the SNS variable. Case dismissed.

Q)Hot-Swap?

A)No, the BK cart will freeze if you remove(regardless of whether you have the items or not) it so there is no possibility of SNS being a "hot-swap".

Q)What about the 64DD?

A)No, there are no "hooks" (which indicate the game was made for 64dd) in either BK or BT that would indicate this method.

Therefore, the only argument you can give me is that the data from EEPROM would be combined with the flag data and stored to the SNS address on boot-up. Like I said before, BK apparently doesn't check for any flags on startup. Thus it is my conclusion that the only way of unlocking the area's in BK is via sandcastle.

Here is my video which should make thing's alot more clear:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CzqkzurX2qM

You must watch this, otherwise I can't guarantee you will understand my "theory".


  #2  
Old 22nd April 2008, 03:51 AM
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Very well organized.

I agree with everything you've said. Not that I understand everything I agree with.


  #3  
Old 22nd April 2008, 03:57 AM
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runehero123 runehero123 is offline
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Basically what I said in the simplest sense is that there would be no swapping data from Banjo-Tooie to Banjo-Kazooie. You would use the sandcastle code's to open the area's instead. However, we know that Banjo-Kazooie sets "flags" in memory when you collect one of the items. Therefore only allowing you to swap data over to Banjo-Tooie.

So basically it's a one-way swap from Banjo-Kazooie to Banjo-Tooie. Still, I'll look into seeing if any SNS Flag data from Banjo-Tooie could combine with the data held in EEPROM before being written to the "SNS variable".

By the way newcomer's to this thread. Read my first post and watch the video.


  #4  
Old 22nd April 2008, 07:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by runehero123 View Post
Basically what I said in the simplest sense is that there would be no swapping data from Banjo-Tooie to Banjo-Kazooie. You would use the sandcastle code's to open the area's instead. However, we know that Banjo-Kazooie sets "flags" in memory when you collect one of the items. Therefore only allowing you to swap data over to Banjo-Tooie.

So basically it's a one-way swap from Banjo-Kazooie to Banjo-Tooie. Still, I'll look into seeing if any SNS Flag data from Banjo-Tooie could combine with the data held in EEPROM before being written to the "SNS variable".

By the way newcomer's to this thread. Read my first post and watch the video.
Thats what I thought as well, you would get the codes from Tooie and use them in Kazooie, and then Tooie would read the data. It would make the most sense, good job.


  #5  
Old 22nd April 2008, 08:21 AM
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Good post. I'm playing catchup on this SNS so I'm all in favour of 101s.
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  #6  
Old 22nd April 2008, 08:40 AM
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I remember someone saying befor about BT giving you the codes for BK

then i said what if capt blackeye gave you the code for TTC?(i mean, theres the pics there and everything)

then i expanded to say what if there were other places, all with a picture of the level, and someone there to tell you the code.
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  #7  
Old 22nd April 2008, 12:02 PM
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Great theory Rune!
Maybe before swapping we would/must did something in BT?
Maybe first we would/must activate area(RSA/Tower Room) where SNS egg(s) would/will be after cold swapping from Banjo-Kazooie?

Last edited by BanjoPL; 22nd April 2008 at 01:15 PM.


  #8  
Old 23rd April 2008, 03:46 AM
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runehero123 runehero123 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Some_Weirdguy
I remember someone saying befor about BT giving you the codes for BK

then i said what if capt blackeye gave you the code for TTC?(i mean, theres the pics there and everything)

then i expanded to say what if there were other places, all with a picture of the level, and someone there to tell you the code.
I don't know, the thing is we couldn't prove how the sandcastle code's are given to you in Banjo-Tooie. We could say that there were "Special" cheato pages that you would collect in area's that looked similar to where the egg's are hidden in Banjo-Kazooie. We could then say that you'd take these cheato page's back to Cheato himself who would reveal to you one of the sandcastle code's to enter in BK. You know the rest...use sandcastle code to unlock secret area's and swap flag data to BT. However, nothing we have can prove the exact way Rare would have had you collect the "Cheats".

Quote:
Originally Posted by Coolboyman
Thats what I thought as well, you would get the codes from Tooie and use them in Kazooie, and then Tooie would read the data. It would make the most sense, good job.
Yah, it would be less complicated this way.

Last edited by runehero123; 23rd April 2008 at 03:49 AM.


  #9  
Old 6th May 2008, 02:28 AM
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sounds like this is very possible, but I was wondering what exactly this does for the DK64 connection


  #10  
Old 6th May 2008, 03:21 AM
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Aww... I thought this would be one of those threads that try to disprove all S'N'S theories, guess I can't flame you now.

Oh, yeah, I think you did a great job figuring this out, sounds plausable.
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  #11  
Old 6th May 2008, 09:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by runehero123 View Post
I don't know, the thing is we couldn't prove how the sandcastle code's are given to you in Banjo-Tooie. We could say that there were "Special" cheato pages that you would collect in area's that looked similar to where the egg's are hidden in Banjo-Kazooie. We could then say that you'd take these cheato page's back to Cheato himself who would reveal to you one of the sandcastle code's to enter in BK. You know the rest...use sandcastle code to unlock secret area's and swap flag data to BT. However, nothing we have can prove the exact way Rare would have had you collect the "Cheats".
couldnt the normal cheato pages originally have been used to get the codes for the sandcastle? that kinda would work...wouldnt it?


 

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