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The Banjo Kazooie Series General Discussion about the Banjo Kazooie series from the N64 classics to the handheld sequels & new Xbox games.

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  #1  
Old 12th June 2022, 10:10 AM
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Another bit of DK64 SNS

https://twitter.com/Rare_Gamer/statu...42933884141569

Cutscene:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5MN4wS6u0ZU

Last edited by BanjoPL; 12th June 2022 at 10:29 AM.
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  #2  
Old 13th June 2022, 10:16 AM
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This is so interesting! Until now I was under the impression that the unused Ice Key and startup flag checks in DK64 were relics of a test or proof of concept of the mechanic ahead of Banjo-Tooie. I had no idea they were ever meant to be included in the final game.
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  #3  
Old 13th June 2022, 01:57 PM
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Thanks for checking out the post, BanjoPL.

Along with the Crystal Caves map, the only other alteration involves that infamous Mystery Pillar in Creepy Castle. As you can see, the original object intended to be placed on the pillar would have been a Golden Donkey Kong Bust/Statue/Trophy.
Due to those maps being the only two altered, I'd reason that this too was intended to be part of the Stop 'N' Swop process:

http://www.raregamer.co.uk/wp-conten...PillarScan.png

I've also just updated the "Stop 'N' Swop: An Explanation and Retrospective" page to reflect these findings - they can be seen in the 'Connections to Donkey Kong 64" sub-chapter underneath "Stop 'N' Swop Revelations"

http://www.raregamer.co.uk/games/sto...spective/#DK64

Last edited by Rare_Gamer; 13th June 2022 at 09:26 PM.
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  #4  
Old 14th June 2022, 02:06 PM
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I'm not sure if anyone still messes around with the Donkey Kong 64 kiosk version, but if they do it would definitely be worth looking further into the code for both Crystal Caves and the Museum of Creepy Castle.
Because the date of the kiosk build is from September of 1999, and Stop 'N' Swop was requested to be removed on October 1st, 1999, it's entirely possible that these early areas (if they are viewable) contain their original intention for Stop 'N' Swop.

If you can get Crystal Caves working, you would want to check out the area where Chunky can use the Gorilla Gone pad near the entrance; to the left of this pad will be a small square chamber that will likely be blocked by a wall with a keyhole in it - this did not make it into the final game.

If you can get Creepy Castle's Museum working, you would want to check out the area where Tiny Kong's pillar can be seen; there should be an object that looks like a golden Donkey Kong bust on the top of the pillar.

I'm sure that this would be in the kiosk, it just depends on how difficult it would be to get it working.
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  #5  
Old 14th June 2022, 11:56 PM
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Unfortunately, there aren't really any members left here that do ROM hacking.
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  #6  
Old 15th June 2022, 02:07 AM
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Yeah Rare Gamer, I would try contacting the people on The Cutting Room Floor about this.

They seem more into the rom hacking scene than we are anymore.
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  #7  
Old 15th June 2022, 03:46 PM
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Ah, a sign of the times I suppose - it's not 2007 any more...
Luckily, I was fortunate to have someone on The Cutting Room Floor reach out to me with a ton of insight into the programming of the game.
From his investigation, it seems like the object for the pillar, as well as the cutscenes involving Crystal Caves are not found in the kiosk version - in fact, a number of cutscenes are missing, which indicates that Stop 'N' Swop could have been a late addition to the game.
Also, as it's been pointed out, the kiosk version itself could have been created long before it was needed for distribution in September of 1999, so the initial hypothesis that the game might have reflected an era just before its removal isn't the most solid.

It could in fact have been created in May, or June of 1999 and held back until the teaser campaign in September - we know that Stop 'N' Swop was removed some time following October 1st, 1999, but we don't have any firm dates on when its inception in Donkey Kong 64 would have taken place.

Still, even though we've hit a dead end, confirmation of non-existence is just as important in the pursuit of knowledge as confirmation of existence, so I'm very pleased and grateful that Tom from TCRF looked into it.

Since the original scans of the Donkey Kong bust/statue/trophy from the German strategy guide are a bit unfocused I have purchased a copy of the guide and I plan on taking a nice high-res scan of the object in question. I should have the mag by the end of the month, and I'll update the guide with the image when it arrives, so watch this space.

Thanks for everyone who took an interest and contributed, it's much appreciated.
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  #8  
Old 15th June 2022, 04:40 PM
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The timeline for DK64 SNS is very dynamic:

June 29, 1999 - Cold Swap Patent ("Huge Blocked Icy Cave" and "Big Icy Key")

October 1, 1999 - Nintendo's request to remove the feature due to hardware issues

November 22, 1999 - Donkey Kong 64 released.
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  #9  
Old 15th June 2022, 05:12 PM
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That's assuming of course that work began following the filing of the application - for all we know, it could have occurred before that time. The creator has also mentioned rewriting it numerous times to appease the lawyers, so it could have been developed around that same time.
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  #10  
Old 21st June 2022, 04:33 PM
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I've received the German DK64 guide and have scanned in the Pillar Page - you can view the comparison, as well as a mockup transition between the versions here:

https://twitter.com/Rare_Gamer/statu...58875051970560
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