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Banjo Theories & Stop 'n' Swop SNS? Bottle's Revenge? Share your thoughts on the mysteries of the Banjo series and discuss the new Stop 'n' Swop features in Nuts and Bolts and the XBLA games

 
 
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  #46  
Old 25th July 2008, 07:37 PM
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FirionEdwards FirionEdwards is offline
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Extremely interesting find Runehero, this proves that there is a remnant for sans-BT SNS in DK64 still existing. Wish you loads of luck looking for full activation.


  #47  
Old 25th July 2008, 07:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Glaber View Post
same reason they left the stop n swop stuff in B-K.
the flag data and code for sns was left in banjo kazooie because at BKs time of release the stop n swop project had not been cancelled yet.

By the time DK64 was released stop n swop had been cancelled, not only that, but its been nearly confirmed that DK64 was only used to TEST stop n swop seeing as it was developed at the same time as banjo kazooie. They had to test it on SOMETHING to assure it would work.

Also, the reason things like remains of the ice key were not removed from DK64 is that when building a program, you will find that every little piece you put in there makes up that program, when you take anything, ANYTHING, out, it runs the risk of causing unpredictable problems and glitches, that's why developers tend to remove things such as images or actual map data, but not the strings of code referencing them.

In short, ice key reference data remains because removing code can be dangerous sometimes, its easier to just leave it behind, yet editing the actual 3d model of crystal caverns to remove a door that no longer does anything in the game doesn't affect the code at all.

Whatever door was tested with stop n swop is either opened a different way, no longer a door, or no longer there.
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  #48  
Old 26th July 2008, 02:36 AM
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I've made some good progress since my last post in this thread. Basically I figured out how to give the ice-key its own slot in the totals menu. See this video for further details:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KtIajMc8Ywk

Also I've went through the code for loading each of the menu items into the totals menu and converted it into a simple to read c++ format. I made a notepad document with included info for hackers like CBM, Subdrag, or SSJ to use.

What I've learned so far is that when loading the Totals Menu, there is a game loop that loads all the Totals items EXCEPT the ice-key. This is interesting, because it means that the ice-key definetly wasn't activated the same way that the other items were (golden bananas, battle crowns, etc. ) . Most likely there is a seperate part of code that checks for a seperate variable (possibly activated through cold-swapping originally) to fully activate the ice-key item.

I've included the hacking research document(attachment) below for those who want to see how the menu loop works.
Attached Files
File Type: txt icekey notes.txt (2.1 KB, 70 views)

Last edited by runehero123; 26th July 2008 at 02:39 AM.


  #49  
Old 26th July 2008, 02:48 AM
torrentstorm torrentstorm is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by runehero123 View Post
I've made some good progress since my last post in this thread. Basically I figured out how to give the ice-key its own slot in the totals menu. See this video for further details:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KtIajMc8Ywk

Also I've went through the code for loading each of the menu items into the totals menu and converted it into a simple to read c++ format. I made a notepad document with included info for hackers like CBM, Subdrag, or SSJ to use.

What I've learned so far is that when loading the Totals Menu, there is a game loop that loads all the Totals items EXCEPT the ice-key. This is interesting, because it means that the ice-key definetly wasn't activated the same way that the other items were (golden bananas, battle crowns, etc. ) . Most likely there is a seperate part of code that checks for a seperate variable (possibly activated through cold-swapping originally) to fully activate the ice-key item.

I've included the hacking research document(attachment) below for those who want to see how the menu loop works.
Awesome and great


  #50  
Old 26th July 2008, 11:01 AM
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ssj ssj is offline
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thanks rune. Very usefull info. Can you please get me a savestate with evrything activated except the ice key and blue prints, but has an empty slot for the key. I have a code that might activate it

Never mind ive actualy found the codes that activate the objects in totals menu, just need to search for the ice key

807FC82B 0001
807FC82C 0001
807FC82D 0001
807FC82E 0001
807FC82F 0001
807FC830 0001
807FC833 0001
807FC834 0001
807FC836 0001

activates everything in the totals menu except for the ice key.

Last edited by ssj; 26th July 2008 at 05:39 PM.


  #51  
Old 26th July 2008, 12:21 PM
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All I can say is great work Rune, so do you think you could 'fully' activate the Ice Key Item? Would there be anything you could do with it or would it just be there, like the normal SNS Items?


  #52  
Old 26th July 2008, 01:02 PM
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Why does the ice key start at 1/1 ice keys? I'm baffled there.


  #53  
Old 26th July 2008, 01:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SubDrag View Post
Why does the ice key start at 1/1 ice keys? I'm baffled there.
because theres only 1 Ice key in the game. Before you coldswap from bk, you wont have a menu that says 0/1 ice keys. Its just like the sns menu in bk. You dont know you have a sns menu until you get one of the items

runehero- later on try 807FC820 0008 or 80FC821 0008 with the empty slot, see what happens, but go to the game selct screen first since it porobably wont work unless you activate it at the game select screen

Last edited by ssj; 26th July 2008 at 05:41 PM.


  #54  
Old 26th July 2008, 01:18 PM
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We should try for the 2d image mod of each item here (non-global one). Btw, how does your 2d image mod work? I could never figure out how to get it going or where to do it.


  #55  
Old 26th July 2008, 06:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Subdrag
Why does the ice key start at 1/1 ice keys? I'm baffled there.
What SSj mentioned. You don't know you have 1/1 ice-keys because you would never see it collected until it was activated in the menu. That way, when you cold-swap, it would show up as 1/1 icekeys collected.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SubDrag
We should try for the 2d image mod of each item here (non-global one). Btw, how does your 2d image mod work? I could never figure out how to get it going or where to do it.
There is an offset in the ASM code that points to the address of the actual 2d-image data in memory. The code I made just takes the last four bytes of the address to point to another offset for image data.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BobbyNicJr
All I can say is great work Rune, so do you think you could 'fully' activate the Ice Key Item? Would there be anything you could do with it or would it just be there, like the normal SNS Items?
I'm sure it's possible. It's just hard to do since the Ice-key isn't activated normally like the other items in the "Totals" menu are.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Subdrag
We should try for the 2d image mod of each item here (non-global one).
If you do a break-point read on the item-values, thats the best place to look for the image-mod. Basically it checks if the item value is greater than 0. If not, it will skip loading the image. If true, it will go ahead and load the image into the menu. I'll get you guys the ASM loop that does this by tommorow morning.

BTW, don't use the address for the golden bananas as they are constantly displayed in the menu. So a read of that address would constantly happen. Use the address for items like blueprints. Then try to load up the Totals menu and it should break on that address.

Last edited by runehero123; 26th July 2008 at 06:46 PM.


  #56  
Old 26th July 2008, 06:59 PM
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Whoa, sweet! A find!

Question: Does Cold Swapping BK and BK64 actually do anything?


  #57  
Old 26th July 2008, 08:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mister Mxyzptlk View Post
But it's a shame so few people know about the DK64 SNS remnants, even though it may have been intended to be the real SNS in the first place.
Seeing as Banjo-Tooie was originally intended to be a 64DD game, that possibilty seems highly likely, as the game beng on a disc would render hot-swapping useless as BK and BT could both be running at the same time.

I do wonder if there's any "strange" walls in Crystal Caverns? Sure they may have removed a door, but there might be an inset or a path leading to seemingly nowhere (unless they had a LOT of time on their hands to do some mass changes to the map design or the door was on a flat section of wall or something).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Theguyoverthere View Post
Whoa, sweet! A find!

Question: Does Cold Swapping BK and BK64 actually do anything?
No. The whole reason SNS was cancelled is apparently due to revisions made to the N64 before release. There would have originally been 10 seconds to swop the games, but the changes leaves only 1 second. Not only is it impossible, but Banjo-Tooie wouldn't receive much in the way of data (if any) even if someone somehow managed to do it, as the feature had been pretty much scrapped at that point and the items had their functionality changed.

EDIT: I looked a little carefully and I think you meant DK64 instead of BK64 there. But anyway, it still wouldn't do much either.

Last edited by .:Alex:.; 27th July 2008 at 06:48 PM.


  #58  
Old 27th July 2008, 12:56 AM
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Downloading a DK64 rom to test this out.

Nice job, Rune.


  #59  
Old 27th July 2008, 05:13 PM
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ssj ssj is offline
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I dont think this is anything significant but i checked out the 2d image mod on artmoney

basically there is 1 line of data that probably wont but could correspond to the 2d images on the totals menu ,because 2 of the digits correspond to the yellow banana and the banana medal image

list of data( In the order it appeared)

052c- Yellow banana
2463-
8072-
3c03-
0032-
1000-
0558- Banana Medal
2463- Why is this repeated?

The odd thing is with the exception of the 2463 the other values dont crash at the 2d image coin mod, they just show nothing

also there are 5 spaces between the banana medal and the yellow banana if the ice key is included, just as there is on that list

816FAEFE ****- THIS IS THE CODE FOR THE BANANA 2d IMAGE MOD IN THE TOTALS MENU!!!!! select it at the game scelect screen otherwise it wont work

e.g 0558 will load up the banana medal image instead

Last edited by ssj; 27th July 2008 at 06:05 PM.


  #60  
Old 27th July 2008, 06:07 PM
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Awesome finds, indeed.


 

Tags
beta, dk64, ice-key, sns


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