Rare Witch Roundtable Podcast
Go Back   The Rare Witch Project Forums > Gaming > Rare & Playtonic

Rare & Playtonic Discuss anything Rare related, from classic Rareware to the Golden(eye) era or even some of their later projects. If it's Rare it's here.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #16  
Old 3rd October 2022, 08:49 PM
Pstriple's Avatar
Pstriple Pstriple is offline
Requests name changes in wrong thread, pays price
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: The box sitting in the corner.
Total Awards: 1
INFECTED - B1K1 
Donkey Kong 64 is best
__________________
The nova of the ocean of the cleverness.
Reply With Quote


  #17  
Old 4th October 2022, 01:01 AM
Mr. Airplane's Avatar
Mr. Airplane Mr. Airplane is offline
a banana peel
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Total Awards: 6
You're Appreciated! RWP Podcast Rarity Chatterbox INFECTED - B1K1 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Qwertyo76 View Post
Tooie is flawed
Great, we agree
__________________

Reply With Quote


  #18  
Old 4th October 2022, 05:59 AM
Mr. Airplane's Avatar
Mr. Airplane Mr. Airplane is offline
a banana peel
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Total Awards: 6
You're Appreciated! RWP Podcast Rarity Chatterbox INFECTED - B1K1 
Or to paraphrase the wise words of the forefathers: I think Banjo Tooie is probably an okay game, it's just not a good Banjo game.
__________________

Reply With Quote


  #19  
Old 4th October 2022, 06:12 AM
Mr. Airplane's Avatar
Mr. Airplane Mr. Airplane is offline
a banana peel
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Total Awards: 6
You're Appreciated! RWP Podcast Rarity Chatterbox INFECTED - B1K1 
Anyway goldeneye is fine
__________________

Reply With Quote


  #20  
Old 4th October 2022, 06:12 AM
Mr. Airplane's Avatar
Mr. Airplane Mr. Airplane is offline
a banana peel
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Total Awards: 6
You're Appreciated! RWP Podcast Rarity Chatterbox INFECTED - B1K1 
Sorry for double posting
__________________

Reply With Quote


  #21  
Old 4th October 2022, 07:31 PM
The Colonel's Avatar
The Colonel The Colonel is offline
Formerly Jinjonator_Dude
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: this chair
Total Awards: 2
You're Appreciated! INFECTED - B2K1 
banjo pooie
Reply With Quote


  #22  
Old 4th October 2022, 09:35 PM
Mandolin's Avatar
Mandolin Mandolin is offline
Strangest Member '08 - '10
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Texas
Total Awards: 6
You're Appreciated! INFECTED - B2K1 Reminiscence Wiki-Master INFECTED - B1K1 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Qwertyo76 View Post
Your gameplay standards are bad, mayhaps. Tooie is flawed for sure and I will readily admit ways that it is, but saying it's a bad game overall is a bit rich. 80% of Tooie complaints are just impatient whining from folks who can't enjoy something without turning their brain off entirely. The other 20% of complaints are valid but even those legitimate issues with BT are largely minor
Flawed, nothing! The game's only real problem is that the framerate is crap on N64. The rest of its alleged flaws (like the BaCkTrAcKiNg) are good, ambitious ideas that people failed to appreciate. And no other platformer ever built on and polished those ideas, like Banjo-Kazooie built on Mario 64, so Tooie is stuck forever as that weird outlier that no one quite knows how to play instead of the modern blueprint for sandbox platformers, like it should've been.

Banjo-Tooie and Diddy's Kong Quest (not in that order) are the two greatest games Rare ever made.
__________________
If trouble is afoot, call me Quentin Tarantino.
Reply With Quote


  #23  
Old 4th October 2022, 10:55 PM
qwertykins76's Avatar
qwertykins76 qwertykins76 is offline
Fired
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: japeville
Total Awards: 3
You're Appreciated! Grey Note Medal INFECTED - B2K1 
My take on backtracking is that it was a good idea/system handled somewhat poorly. I didn't used to think it was handled poorly but nowadays I really have to admit a lot of the backtracking sucked and was dumb.

I will defend the CONCEPT of backtracking to death and I do think people are waaay too complainy about it, but I also REALLY think they could've handled it better a lot of the time......
I was about to make a list of backtracking Jiggies that bother me but it's easier to summarize: I dislike the Jiggies that are literally just padding. The Glide Jiggy on the pillar in Jolly Roger's Lagoon for example isn't a challenge, it isn't creative, it isn't interesting in ANY way, it's just
  • fumble around in vain trying to get it
  • eventually give up
  • return waaaay later once you have learned glide
  • glide to it

This is stupid, this is JUST padding that exists solely to waste the player's time for no good reason. I didn't learn anything, I didn't achieve anything, I didn't have fun, I didn't apply my knowledge cleverly, I didn't execute a task that was difficult, nothing about this sequence of events was worth my time and energy. It's ARBITRARY that this Jiggy was unobtainable until later, and there are a LOT of Jiggies like this. They drag down Tooie a lot, making it feel like a list of chores. The backtracking I do actually love is when there is justification for it as it's trying to do something actually interesting, clever, or worthwhile.

A couple ways to improve this particular Jiggy and not make it dumb and stupid and lame and also dumb
  • have a possible, but difficult way to obtain it on the first visit, and glide is just a late game way to get it more easily
  • have a minor platforming challenge involved here that requires kazooie to glide from crevice to crevice correctly, and requires a slight amount of thought/effort to make it across. having gusts of wind you have to navigate around is another idea, just have it be SOMETHING
  • move this jiggy to hailfire peaks, where it isn't necessary for it to be difficult, as it would now serve as a reward for getting through the Icicle Grotto and as a very basic showcase on how to glide
  • keep the Jiggy in JRL unchanged, but add a shortcut from the Icicle Grotto to Smuggler's Cavern so that you don't waste the player's time
  • keep this sequence of events unchanged, but swop the Jiggy for something else like a Cheato Page

If you're gonna make me backtrack you better justify it SOMEhow. Figuring out how to smuggle food out of Witchyworld to feed the cavemen was a somewhat fun way of doing backtracking. Crossing the Stomping Plains with Banjo solo is neat to figure out, even if it's easy once you know how. Just......something, please. Don't force players to come back arbitrarily.
Reply With Quote


  #24  
Old 4th October 2022, 11:32 PM
Mr. Airplane's Avatar
Mr. Airplane Mr. Airplane is offline
a banana peel
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Total Awards: 6
You're Appreciated! RWP Podcast Rarity Chatterbox INFECTED - B1K1 
Oddjob is shorter than everyone else in Goldeneye, kinda unfair tbh
__________________

Reply With Quote


  #25  
Old 5th October 2022, 01:45 AM
Mandolin's Avatar
Mandolin Mandolin is offline
Strangest Member '08 - '10
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Texas
Total Awards: 6
You're Appreciated! INFECTED - B2K1 Reminiscence Wiki-Master INFECTED - B1K1 
Jinjo is the Oddjob of Banjo-Tooie.

__________________
If trouble is afoot, call me Quentin Tarantino.
Reply With Quote


  #26  
Old 5th October 2022, 02:09 AM
Zondekel's Avatar
Zondekel Zondekel is offline
Mercury Star Power, Make Up~!
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: ...
Total Awards: 10
Awesome Default Medal You're Appreciated! INFECTED - B2K1 Imagination Game On 
Banjo-Tooie is a fine game..

..but it's not as good as Super Mario Sunshine.
__________________
...
Reply With Quote


  #27  
Old 5th October 2022, 04:55 AM
Mandolin's Avatar
Mandolin Mandolin is offline
Strangest Member '08 - '10
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Texas
Total Awards: 6
You're Appreciated! INFECTED - B2K1 Reminiscence Wiki-Master INFECTED - B1K1 
__________________
If trouble is afoot, call me Quentin Tarantino.
Reply With Quote


  #28  
Old 5th October 2022, 06:12 AM
Zondekel's Avatar
Zondekel Zondekel is offline
Mercury Star Power, Make Up~!
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: ...
Total Awards: 10
Awesome Default Medal You're Appreciated! INFECTED - B2K1 Imagination Game On 
ain't i a stinker
__________________
...
Reply With Quote


  #29  
Old 6th October 2022, 01:18 AM
Pstriple's Avatar
Pstriple Pstriple is offline
Requests name changes in wrong thread, pays price
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: The box sitting in the corner.
Total Awards: 1
INFECTED - B1K1 
I think Bubsy 3D is a good platformer.
__________________
The nova of the ocean of the cleverness.
Reply With Quote


Reply


User Tag List

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT. The time now is 01:46 PM.


Forums powered by vBulletin® Copyright © Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Website © 2000-∞ The RWP