Gregg Mayles posts the Original SNS Design Plans

[Coolboyman]

https://x.com/Ghoulyboy/status/20032...hxowzK6Zw&s=19

[Rare_Gamer]

There is a lot of new information from these design docs that solve many of the lingering mysteries of Stop 'N' Swop, and some speculated solutions over the years now have definitive answers.
This is absolutely unreal.

Here's a handy breakdown, to keep everything organized, new information learned for the first time is bolded.


MYSTERY EGGS:

- Banjo-Tooie's Stop 'N' Swop system did not originally feature the bouncing cartridges around Spiral Mountain, but instead featured six switches, each corresponding with a Stop 'N' Swop item found in Banjo-Kazooie. (NEW)

- Once one of the Stop 'N' Swop switches is pressed, a cutscene showing its corresponding area 'unlocking' is recreated with Banjo-Tooie to give the impression that it has been magically unlocked in Banjo-Kazooie. (info previously established in patent)

- Bottles would instruct players how to perform Stop 'N' Swop. (NEW)

- The secrets would be shared across files in Tooie, just as collecting a Mystery Egg in Kazooie via Sandcastle code will activate on all files. However, new files will have to hit the switch in Spiral Mountain to get the Mystery Egg in their inventory for that file. No need to coldswap a second time. (NEW)

- Heggy the Hen was always planned to be the one to oversee Stop 'N' Swop in Banjo-Tooie, as her egg shed is listed in the document. (NEW)


ICE KEY:

- The Ice Key was intended to be transferred from Banjo-Kazooie to Donkey Kong 64, and this feature was implemented during its development in 1999. ("ICE KEY" text in DK64 memory)

- Within Donkey Kong 64, successful transfer of the Ice Key would have unlocked an Ice Door in Crystal Caves. The Ice Door area is still visible within the German Strategy Guide. (Crystal Caves German Strategy Guide

- When the Ice Key had been utilized in Donkey Kong 64 to open the Ice Door, a Banjo-Kazooie Fridge would open in Donkey Kong's Treehouse. (The model of the Fridge can be seen on Nintendo of Japan's promotional DK64 website, and the unused cutscene itself can still be triggered in the retail version.)

- The Ice Key would disappear from the Ice Door in Crystal Caves, and lock itself in the Fridge in Donkey Kong's Treehouse, where it would be waiting for Banjo-Tooie. (NEW)

- The Ice Key was the one Stop 'N' Swop Item that was meant to pass sequentially between all of the games it was primed for. You could not 'skip' Donkey Kong 64 and have Banjo-Kazooie give the Ice Key to Banjo-Tooie. (Paul Machacek 2020 Interview

- At some point in Banjo-Tooie - undecided at the time of the document - players will view a cutscene of the Fridge opening in Donkey Kong 64, prompting them to coldswap to that game from Banjo-Tooie. (NEW)

- Once the Ice Key is collected from the Fridge in Donkey Kong 64, players will coldswap back to Banjo-Tooie where the Ice Key is now in their inventory. (NEW)

- The Ice Key is taken to HailFire Peaks and used to unlock the Ice Safe, just as it is in our retail version of Banjo-Tooie. However, opening it does not reveal a Mega Glowbo, but rather a "Super Jiggy" (NEW)

- The Ice Key then disappears, reappearing at an undetermined location in Banjo-Tooie where it waits for the NEXT N64 GAME, just as Donkey Kong 64 did for Banjo-Tooie. (NEW)

- Walking into the Safe and collecting the Super Jiggy will add it to the totals. At this point in time, Cauldron Keep was meant to be a complete 'castle' level with 10 Jiggies, so collecting all 100 Jiggies in Banjo-Tooie would result in the Super Jiggy bumping the total up to 101. Bottles congratulates the player, and unlocks a special 'outtakes' ending.
(NEW)

- The Next N64 Game will need to rely on Banjo-Tooie in order to retrieve the Ice Key from its undetermined location and successfully transfer it to the next sequential title. (NEW)

GOLDEN DONKEY KONG BUST:

- A Golden Donkey Kong Bust was meant to sit ontop of the pillar/pedestal in Creepy Castle, behind glass that could be broken, like the Ice Key. The image of this Golden DK Bust was accidentally left in the German Strategy guide. (German Strategy Guide/Comparison

- At some point during Banjo-Tooie - undecided at the time of the document - players would view a cutscene of the glass protecting the Golden Donkey Kong Bust shattering. This would prompt them to coldswap from Banjo-Tooie to Donkey Kong 64 and collect the Golden Donkey Kong Bust. (NEW)

- If the Golden Donkey Kong Bust is collected in DK64, and the player coldswaps back to Banjo-Tooie, they will have Bottles urge them to check the multiplayer options on the Game Selection screen. Doing so will reveal Donkey Kong (and possibly others from DK64) as playable characters. (NEW)


GOLDEN BANJO BUST:

- During Banjo-Tooie, players would have come across a Golden Banjo Bust that was similarly unreachable as its Creepy Castle counterpart. A future game in Rare's library would allow players to coldswap to Banjo-Tooie, collect this Golden Banjo Bust and transfer it forward to that future N64 title. (NEW)

- If the Golden Banjo Bust needed to be something else instead, it could be reworked, but it is stressed that if it remains a Bust, it should have something to do with Banjo. (NEW)

And that brings us to...
...
..
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REMAINING MYSTERIES AND SPECULATION:

- We know now that the Banjo-Kazooie Fridge was meant to 'hold' the Ice Key for transfer to Banjo-Tooie after unlocking the Ice Door in Crystal Caves, but... what was in the Ice Door?
Given that the Ice Safe in Banjo-Tooie was meant to contain a 101st "Super Jiggy" that unlocked an "outtakes" ending, it wouldn't be out of the question to suggest that this might have been the original location for the 201st Golden Banana which unlocks the same feature in the retail version of Donkey Kong 64.
If this is the case, the door inside the Banana Fairy Island would have ostensibly held something else during development that was then replaced with the 201st when they realized they had to remove the Ice Door and its trappings. So what is that 'something else'?

- On the list for "models/graphics needed", it specifies "The 3 different coloured Secret Eggs as seen in scenes 3,5, and 6." That gives us models needed for the Green Egg, the Red Egg, and the Yellow Egg. Why skip Cyan? Or the remaining Pink and Blue? Were they already in the game, then? Given that Pink and Blue were the ones shown in Banjo-Kazooie during the teaser, it could be possible that the Tooie team had set on those first. But Cyan? Hmm...

- Homing Eggs, Breegul Bash and Jinjo as Multiplayer are earned in the retail version of Banjo-Tooie by hatching the Pink, Blue and Yellow Mystery Eggs, respectively. If we consider that Dragon Kazooie could have been an original Mystery Egg Reward, were these four always considered to be the prizes for unlocking their Mystery Eggs, or were they replacements for other rewards that wouldn't have been possible otherwise? (for instance, Donkey Kong was intended to be an unlockable character, which works with the crossover logic of coldswapping - was this replaced by the Jinjo, then?)

- For that matter, if all 6 eggs were meant to be utilized in Banjo-Tooie, could some of the supplementary unlockables in the game (like Roysten's Extra Oxygen) have been intended for Stop 'N' Swop?

[Coolboyman]

Great rundown.

Originally Posted by Rare_Gamer

- We know now that the Banjo-Kazooie Fridge was meant to 'hold' the Ice Key for transfer to Banjo-Tooie after unlocking the Ice Door in Crystal Caves, but... what was in the Ice Door?

Gregg wrote the document and he was the lead designer of BK and BT but not DK64. The only DK64 bits involved in the document are referring to the links to the games he worked on. Therefore, the purpose of the Ice Key in DK64 before moving it to BT would be up to the lead designer of DK64 and irreverent to BK and BT. George Andreas would probably have the answer to what the Ice Key did in DK64, because only being an extra step to transfer it between BK and BT would've been pointless.

Originally Posted by Rare_Gamer

Given that the Ice Safe in Banjo-Tooie was meant to contain a 101st "Super Jiggy" that unlocked an "outtakes" ending, it wouldn't be out of the question to suggest that this might have been the original location for the 201st Golden Banana which unlocks the same feature in the retail version of Donkey Kong 64.

If this is the case, the door inside the Banana Fairy Island would have ostensibly held something else during development that was then replaced with the 201st when they realized they had to remove the Ice Door and its trappings. So what is that 'something else'?

The way I read it, the out takes would've been in Tooie. It's possible the idea was carried over from Tooie to DK64 and the Ice Key could've unlocked the 201th GB. Maybe getting all the fairies would've been a bonus like the Rambi and Enguarde minigames. Those are unlocked when you get a certain amount of fairies.

Originally Posted by Rare_Gamer

- On the list for "models/graphics needed", it specifies "The 3 different coloured Secret Eggs as seen in scenes 3,5, and 6." That gives us models needed for the Green Egg, the Red Egg, and the Yellow Egg. Why skip Cyan? Or the remaining Pink and Blue? Were they already in the game, then? Given that Pink and Blue were the ones shown in Banjo-Kazooie during the teaser, it could be possible that the Tooie team had set on those first. But Cyan? Hmm...

Because for Cyan, Pink and Blue, it would've shown an external shot of the areas that contain them opening up, not the scenes that contain those eggs. The other three appear in areas you can normally access and the only way they could convey that they're unlocked in BK, is to actually show them.

They wouldn't copy/paste the complete scenes into Tooie, just what would be shown by the cutscene camera. For example in GV, they would've just brought over the gemoetry/textures from the tomb entrance area, along with the door actor so it could be shown opening up. The rest of the GV scene would've been deleted. Same with the other 5 BK areas + 2 DK ones. DK64 would also need a shot of Wozza's Cave leading to the Ice Key.

Originally Posted by Rare_Gamer

- Homing Eggs, Breegul Bash and Jinjo as Multiplayer are earned in the retail version of Banjo-Tooie by hatching the Pink, Blue and Yellow Mystery Eggs, respectively. If we consider that Dragon Kazooie could have been an original Mystery Egg Reward, were these four always considered to be the prizes for unlocking their Mystery Eggs, or were they replacements for other rewards that wouldn't have been possible otherwise? (for instance, Donkey Kong was intended to be an unlockable character, which works with the crossover logic of coldswapping - was this replaced by the Jinjo, then?)

- For that matter, if all 6 eggs were meant to be utilized in Banjo-Tooie, could some of the supplementary unlockables in the game (like Roysten's Extra Oxygen) have been intended for Stop 'N' Swop?

It seems that the yellow egg prize a carry over from DK as a multiplayer character. Perhaps the Jinjo was originally always unlocked, and when they couldn't use DK, they just gave the unlock status to another existing character. Those others you mentioned could've been SNS rewards too.

One question I have is where they would put all six switches in Spiral Mountain? There's not enough room, and they'd likely have a mini challenge leading to them that can only be completed with Tooie moves, much like the BK Carts. This is where the Tower Room may have came into play? Or perhaps more rooms in the lair.

[qwertykins76]

Is it a fairly safe assumption that one of the egg switch locations would have been inside the Tower Room in Spiral Mountain that we otherwise know nothing about besides the wireframe?

Originally Posted by Coolboyman

Because for Cyan, Pink and Blue, it would've shown an external shot of the areas that contain them opening up, not the scenes that contain those eggs.

I was about to say this but I checked, and the cutscene when you input the code for the Cyan Egg does actually show the egg. So yeah, it's weird there's no mention of needing to recreate the Cyan Egg asset for the purpose of remaking the cutscene, but tbh I think this is just a mistake on Gregg's part, he just forgot the Cyan Egg was also shown I'm guessing. This same document also says "DK" multiple times when he clearly meant to say "BK" and just forgot to correct his copy-pasted text.

The Cyan Egg has always been a suspicious one tho..... Why the hell are all the other mystery eggs in the correct order in the SNS menu except for Cyan......Is it......A CONSPIRACY?????

Edit:

Originally Posted by Rare_Gamer

but... what was in the Ice Door?

the Super Banana, obviously ^.^

[Coolboyman]

Originally Posted by qwertykins76

Is it a fairly safe assumption that one of the egg switch locations would have been inside the Tower Room in Spiral Mountain that we otherwise know nothing about besides the wireframe?



I was about to say this but I checked, and the cutscene when you input the code for the Cyan Egg does actually show the egg. So yeah, it's weird there's no mention of needing to recreate the Cyan Egg asset for the purpose of remaking the cutscene, but tbh I think this is just a mistake on Gregg's part, he just forgot the Cyan Egg was also shown I'm guessing. This same document also says "DK" multiple times when he clearly meant to say "BK" and just forgot to correct his copy-pasted text.

The Cyan Egg has always been a suspicious one tho..... Why the hell are all the other mystery eggs in the correct order in the SNS menu except for Cyan......Is it......A CONSPIRACY?????

Maybe he thought the game could save space if they changed the camera angle of the barrel opening? I'm guessing he wasn't aware that all SNS eggs use the same model with different textures, so it wouldn't have made much difference anyway. He also left out other actors that would've been needed in those shots, like Nabnut sleeping, Sea Grublins, Loggo, etc.
BK's SNS model made its way into BT with all six textures there, just unused.

[sky_queen3]

Ooo, very interesting.

[BanjoPL]

What a day...awesome design and concept.

Kudos to Rare_Gamer for all his DK64 research and speculation. Many of those things are confirmed by Ghouly Boy now like this Gold DK Statue in Creepy Castle.

[Rare_Gamer]

Thanks so much, BanjoPL!

It's very surreal to be following something like Stop 'N' Swop where you're documenting the journey, and suddenly find yourself making a discovery that means you're part of its history!

I still remember vividly looking through the German version of the Donkey Kong 64 strategy guide in June of 2022. I wasn't even thinking of Stop 'N' Swop - I was just hunting for unseen artwork, and then unexpectedly stumbled upon the pages of the Ice Door in Crystal Caves, and the Golden Donkey Kong Bust in Creepy Castle, accidentally left in. Render searching definitely took a backseat that day...

At the time, looking between the English and German version, I could see that the only redaction on either map was the Ice Door, and the Golden Donkey Kong Bust, theorizing that both had been removed in the eleventh hour as they were involved in the same feature - and that's all I had to go on with speculating that the latter might have *something* to do with Stop 'N' Swop.

To go from that hunch to listening to Paul Machacek on the Retro Hour podcast reveal that he recalls *something* Stop 'N' Swop related on a pedestal, and now having the burden of proof on the document, calling it out by name, and discovering its true purpose within Stop 'N' Swop is a level of vindication I can't even begin to describe.

I am so glad that I asked Gregg if he had any Stop 'N' Swop documents when he started posting his Tooie designs, and I'm so very grateful that he returned my query with a tease of the page, and then graciously posted the document in full yesterday - what an absolutely wild ride!

Originally Posted by Zondekel

I saw last week he told Rare_Gamer that he'd release the Stop n Swop documents at the end of this.

Originally Posted by qwertykins76

I would give Rare Gamer the liver of my firstborn son

Keep your boys liver, qwertykins76, this is cooler.

[qwertykins76]

My own spleen is yours, at your behest. A kidney or 2, as a token of gratitude.

[Gold Jinjo]

Originally Posted by Rare_Gamer

- The Next N64 Game will need to rely on Banjo-Tooie in order to retrieve the Ice Key from its undetermined location and successfully transfer it to the next sequential title. (NEW)

Conker or Dinosaur Planet, eh?

Or... Banjo-Threeie I reckon by that point they could have whipped up that game in a year if they wanted to.

Quite bold to plan this stuff to run so late into the N64's lifecycle.

[AndyNPC]

I can see an alternate timeline where it was Dinosaur Planet that was meant to be the "future N64 game" and the mystery that bothered us for years is how to get this Banjo bust and what it would have unlocked.