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The Banjo Kazooie Series General Discussion about the Banjo Kazooie series from the N64 classics to the handheld sequels & new Xbox games.

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  #1  
Old 7th January 2016, 04:05 AM
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Rainbow BK has aged well IMHO

Even without the nostalgia goggles, when looking at BK next to staples fo the N64 era, like Mario 64 and Zelda... it still looks good. I feel OoT and Mario64... look like shit
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Old 7th January 2016, 04:21 AM
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yeah its fine graphically but it hasnt aged better in general than mario 64
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Old 7th January 2016, 05:12 AM
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Old 7th January 2016, 05:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yiffgurl View Post
yeah its fine graphically but it hasnt aged better in general than mario 64
i kinda despise this comparison, although the 90s might be to blame for pitting the two against eachother in general. banjo-kazooie and mario 64 are on two different points in the spectrum of 3d platforming IMO. mario 64 is great when it comes to pulling off multi-spacial parkour esque moves to perform shallow video game-y tasks (and that's not at all bad). banjo kazooie on the other hand, contrary to the guise of the multifaceted moveset (which is ultimately superficial as banjo, regardless of kazooie, can never move as smoothly or gracefully as mario) is more about the exploration and becoming immersed in this large disneylandian world, full of colorful characters and charming artifacts all of which you can interact with in a broader way than you're capable of in mario 64. it really just boils down (in my mind) to the comparison of a simple playground, where you can roam around free of rules on very simple and indistinct infrastructure, and an amusement park where you're bound by rules but the scope and appeal of the world is so immersive that it doesn't bother you.

what did you think? leave a comment below and i'll be sure to get back to you. thanks for listening, like comment and subscribe for more content.
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Last edited by Keegan; 7th January 2016 at 05:54 AM.
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  #5  
Old 7th January 2016, 06:55 AM
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  #6  
Old 7th January 2016, 04:45 PM
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Mario 64 is so good that it gets away with looking awful, feeling clunky and spastic, having a shit camera, and having uninspired obstacle course worlds. It's an extremely fun classic but you can't make those same complaints about banjo Kazooie. Considering BK came after and would have no excuse still having those flaws, I think it's totally fair to argue Banjo is the better game

And also, the banjo kazooie we know today would not exist without mario.
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Old 7th January 2016, 05:18 PM
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Listen, I love Banjo-Kazooie, but it is not better than Mario 64. SM64 was a landmark in gaming, and one that probably won't be topped for the "holy shit" factor, until there is a breakout VR game that similarly brings in a new era of gaming. The geometry and theming pales in comparison to BK, yeah, but it also came out two years earlier. The platforming is also better in Super Mario 64, I think by a fair amount. (Remember that the BK camera was better, but still sort of a piece of shit until the 360 HD versions.)

I do agree though that Banjo Kazooie has aged much better than a lot of other games in the era, especially other Rare platformers like Donkey Kong 64 and Conker. The environments are diverse and interesting, and the humor still lands really well. I think part of it is the XBLA versions are sort of still in our heads a bit, but it is still really good looking for an N64 game. Banjo-Tooie even more so.
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  #8  
Old 7th January 2016, 05:29 PM
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whether bk or sm64 is better comes down to subjectivity, and theres no doubt that bk blows most 90s 3D platformers away, but saying bk has aged better because it looks better graphically is asinine

to me, sm64 will always be the greatest game ever, and i think its flaws like poor camera and simplistic level design are usually greatly exaggerated - you can call me a nostalgia*** or whatever but theres a lot of shit i liked in the 90s that i think are average to awful (esp. in this genre - hello gex and spyro), and mario 64 still feels like an untouchable, timeless gem

that said i get the argument for bk, it caters to a different stylistic approach, but i agree with keegan that for that reason it's a silly comparison in the first place
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Old 7th January 2016, 05:37 PM
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Mario 64 isn't better, it just came out first. Mario 64 is far more influential to gaming culture, yes, and I love Mario 64 dearly, but being the first of its kind, it has not aged well.

That's like saying Pokémon Red and Blue are inherently better than any other Pokémon games that have come out after them. Obviously those were far more important and significant games, but they're also, like, glitchy and broken as hell. Which can be part of the fun, but you get what I'm saying.
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  #10  
Old 7th January 2016, 05:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by qwertyo76 View Post
Mario 64 isn't better, it just came out first. Mario 64 is far more influential to gaming culture, yes, and I love Mario 64, but being the first of its kind, it has not aged well.

That's like saying Pokémon Red and Blue are inherently better than any other Pokémon games that have come out after them. Obviously those were far more important and significant, but they're also, like, glitchy and broken as hell. Which can be part of the fun, but you get what I'm saying.
mario 64 caters to a style of gameplay that didnt exist again for that entire generation, and it still plays as tight and fluidly as it did in 1996, so im not sure how you could argue that it hasnt aged well unless youre like whyme who is uptight about the graphics being ok at best

ive already written giant things on why pokemon rb are the best pokemon games, so im not even going to try to go into that, but i think its absurd to say r/b being "glitchy and broken" nullifies them when that is entirely irrelevant to playing the game itself and only comes up when youre actively seeking it out (or in the rare case that you use rage and it misses lol)
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  #11  
Old 7th January 2016, 05:55 PM
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I'm just saying that if Banjo-Kazooie had, somehow, been a launch title for the N64 and released on the same day as Mario 64, things would be much different.

You can choose to factor in the time period and the impact of each game on culture when trying to judge which is better, sure, but I'm judging them critically. I'm trying to take the two games outside of the context of their own time period and say, which one plays better in 2016? I can say without bias that I think Kazooie aged better and is overall a better game in general. You can disagree.
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  #12  
Old 7th January 2016, 06:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by qwertyo76 View Post
I'm just saying that if Banjo-Kazooie had, somehow, been a launch title for the N64 and released on the same day as Mario 64, things would be much different.

You can choose to factor in the time period and the impact of each game on culture when trying to judge which is better, sure, but I'm judging them critically. I'm trying to take the two games outside of the context of their own time period and say, which one plays better in 2016? I can say without bias that I think Kazooie aged better and is overall a better game in general. You can disagree.
my argument has nothing to do with time frame though.......

mario definitely plays better than banjo, thats its biggest strength, danny has made this argument but im gonna rehash it - look at the games when theyre being speedran; mario is full of airtight execution and quick sharp movements, whereas banjo runs are comparatively clunky

if you prefer the collection aspect thats ok but i think tooie did that better than kazooie anyway
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  #13  
Old 7th January 2016, 06:51 PM
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I don't think either of those three big titles have aged poorly. Mario 64 was the first game, so it's not really texture heavy, and I think it still looks okay without them. Ocarina still looks better than most other games, because they did with textures what they couldn't do with polygons, and did very well to make it atmospheric with such a limited file size. Banjo Kazooie of course still looks good as well, since it's cartoony and has very nice textures to work with, especially with how they blend them together in the geometry.

The only thing to me that's aged poorly is Banjo Tooie's frame rate issues, . Also Conker's FPS controls, but I'm still pretty used to that because of Turok.
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Old 7th January 2016, 08:12 PM
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I always hold both titles to equal importance and quality. Mario 64, being essentially the granddaddy of the 3D platforming genre in its entirety, definitely had more flexibility and player involvement when it came to its control scheme compared to Banjo, and there's the fact that Banjo would have likely just been an isometric linear platformer if Mario 64 hadn't come out and revolutionized the industry. It made the Banjo-Kazooie series we know and love today possible, and that's a small fraction of what makes it such a historically-important game in the first place.

With that said, Banjo-Kazooie did a lot more with not just graphics but world-building, character development and story elements, and overall was just more baroque than anything that anyone had ever seen at the time, including Mario 64. That's not to say Mario 64 lacked in world-building, it most certainly didn't - it was just one of the earliest games to come out on the console and consequentially had more focus put into the fast-paced gameplay while sacrificing a bit of world cohesion and design. The thing that really sets BK apart from Mario 64 and makes it fantastic all its own is the fact that every creature you encounter or every platform you jump on makes sense and fits an overarching theme moreso than the hobbled-together floating platforms in the sky that you see in SM64.

So when someone comes up to me and asks me to choose between the two, I just can't. I think they have their own incredible contributions to the era and to gaming in general, despite Super Mario 64 has the advantage of being the pioneer and having more historical significance over BK.
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  #15  
Old 7th January 2016, 09:06 PM
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I still draw immense fun out of Mario 64 when playing even though it looks completely horrible.

I still draw immense fun out of playing Banjo-Kazooie which still looks ridiculously nice when compared to your average Nintendo 64 game.

I do think personally Banjo-Kazooie has aged better than Mario 64, mostly because the low-poly simpler-textured Mario 64 really distracts from how fun playing the game is. Mario 64 just doesn't look inviting to play aesthetically imo.
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