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Banjo Theories & Stop 'n' Swop SNS? Bottle's Revenge? Share your thoughts on the mysteries of the Banjo series and discuss the new Stop 'n' Swop features in Nuts and Bolts and the XBLA games

 
 
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  #1  
Old 11th April 2009, 09:02 AM
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DK64 and SnS, not what you think?

Okay, so this is the very first theory I've ever posted, and I'm hoping to get a bit of support with this...And I'm really hoping that members like Runehero will check this out and tell me what they think.

So I'm aware that there are some ideas floating around that Donkey Kong 64 may have possibly had some part in Stop and Swap.
I, for one, have been VERY skeptical about it since day ONE.


First, I will bring up what we DO know. (And PLEASE bear with me, I'm not trying to get tons of technical things wrong, I'm just saying this all to the best of my own knowledge from being here...)
There are traces of the famed 'Ice Key' from Banjo Kazooie and Tooie inside of the coding of Donkey Kong 64.
And from what I've read, in the menu, there is a value that says something along the lines of 'Ice Key 0/1', and then I think I've heard that Rune has gotten it to go to say 'Ice Key 1/1'.

Well, my theory has some background proof/data, and some ideas that are pulled out of my head, but most theories start like that.



Anyways, one thing that has always caught my attention is that the value for the Ice Key in DK64 is only listed as 1/1, and as far as we know, there are no other items related to Stop and Swop in the game (right?)
Seeing as there was only ONE Ice Key that we know of, and it was from Banjo Kazooie, ANOTHER Rare game, I'm sure that is why we have made this connection and relation.

Donkey Kong 64 was released on November 24th, 1999. The first Banjo Kazooie title was released on June 29, 1998, a total of One year, Four Months, and Twenty-Six days before the release of DK64.
Banjo-Tooie was released on November 19, 2000, Eleven months, and Twenty-Six days after the release of DK64.

So, MY theory, is that there was NEVER intended to be any SnS connectivity between any of the Banjo Kazooie titles and Donkey Kong 64. Donkey Kong 64, in terms of 'secrets' and mysterious things that still 'haunt/tease' us since beating it, didn't match up to the high standard that BK had set...
If anything, the main, if not only mystery we have in the game has been found from the entire Ice Key mystery.

I actually believe, VERY strongly, that Donkey Kong 64 was actually used as a Testing area for SnS. WHAT better way to get ready for SnS, a feature to be used in another year and half, than to start working on it on another similar game, same company, and similar game engine, than DK64??? I am assuming that all of the items for SnS were going to be activated in the same way as everything (i.e. all color eggs, the key, all had the same methods...)
Seeing as after Banjo Kazooie was released, most of the team started focusing their efforts on Donkey Kong, it is VERY possible that they got some of their Stop and Swop testing for the future title, Banjo Tooie, done by using Donkey Kong 64.
What I mean by this, is that since it uses a very similar engine as Kazooie and Tooie, they probably coded an 'Ice Key' into the memory of DK64 (never anything with any REAL familiar graphics or anything, simply just the 'item' in the coding...) so they could start experimenting with the feature before getting far into the development of Banjo Tooie.

Even though work had already started on Banjo Tooie, by putting this feature into DK64, they were able to get ahead on one of the FIRST (and possibly most complex) features they had planned on for the sequel.


So my conclusion?

There *IS* no SnS connection with DK64 and the Banjo Kazooie titles.
It was simply just an early start for the team on getting the features tweaks worked out! That would explain why we haven't found any other Stop and Swop items in the game, *or* any actual graphics for an Ice Key.


Following me yet?


I know, I know, having DK64 added into the blender of our SnS theories sure made it so much more 'mysterious' and interesting....
But the fact remains, why would they have included it???
Stop and Swop isn't some HUGE mystery that encompasses EVERY thought and action of Rare...it was a NEAT little bonus that we were going to get to look forward to.
Once it got dropped, THAT is the EXACT moment it became this huge 'Atlantis' of lost features...


Okay, I'm sorry if there was much in there that seemed far-fetched, or not logical, ESPECIALLY for those of you that have done any work on researching the DK64 connection. Feel free to make your comments or challenges towards this. I'd LOVE it.
I'm just trying to see if I'm alone or not in thinking that Stop and Swop isn't as HUGE and 'mysterious' as everyone is trying to act like.

Doesn't this make sense?

So, that may go to say that since SnS wasn't dropped until AFTER DK64 was released...it is VERY possible there may still be some way to trigger the Ice Key in DK64 (or possibly if anyone has a Beta Cart?) by way of Cold-Swap (as had been planned for Banjo Tooie) for those of ya with Pre-1999 consoles! That goes, of course, assuming that they never took the triggers out before mass-release! I mean, maybe they left the trigger in the DK64 memory, so you can still activate the Key that way? who knows...

Last edited by QuantumError; 11th April 2009 at 09:11 AM.


  #2  
Old 11th April 2009, 09:08 AM
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There is nothing hidden in DK64 that SnS would unlock (in Tooie there is Bottles' Revenge).
Yeah it would be cool if Ice Key can be transfered from BK to DK64 but there is nothing that Ice Key can activate (nothing extra in DK64's memory)

Last edited by BanjoPL; 11th April 2009 at 09:12 AM.


  #3  
Old 11th April 2009, 09:13 AM
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I think it's been partly confirmed that DK64 was probably just for testing, because BT wasn't far enough in development yet.
I see where you're coming from though, that's pretty much why we've come to that conclusion.
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  #4  
Old 11th April 2009, 09:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BanjoPL View Post
There is nothing hidden in DK64 that SnS would unlock (in Tooie there is Bottles' Revenge).
Yeah it would be cool if Ice Key can be transfered from BK to DK64 but there is nothing that Ice Key can activate (nothing extra in DK64's memory)
That's exactly what I'm saying...
All it 'transfers' is a value...No physical objects, and even if it DID, where the heck would an 'Ice Key' be used???

I'm saying that there IS no SnS for DK64...Just some little pieces of coding left that some of our members have found, and a whole bunch of speculation off of that from OTHER members....

There was NEVER any mention of any hidden features in DK64...
That's why I think it was just a test preparing for BT.


Quote:
I think it's been partly confirmed that DK64 was probably just for testing, because BT wasn't far enough in development yet.
I see where you're coming from though, that's pretty much why we've come to that conclusion.
I'm only posting this because of a recent onslaught of seeing people being like 'OMG!!! DK64 SnS!!11!!! NEW BANJO TOOIE XBLA!!! GAHHAHAH BLARHG!!!'

Last edited by QuantumError; 11th April 2009 at 09:16 AM.


  #5  
Old 11th April 2009, 09:14 AM
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ssj mentioned that there is hidden SHARED area but it don't think so that this is Ice Key's prize.


  #6  
Old 11th April 2009, 09:19 AM
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I'd really like to see the opinions of some of those other members who know a bit more about this....


Don't you guys ever just have those days where you feel like 'GAH! Stupid Noobz don't know ANYTHING!!! They just ASSUME and pull crap out of thin air!'
The past week has been like that for me, so I wanted to get this out here.


  #7  
Old 11th April 2009, 09:21 AM
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Man i supported SNS since 2003 so i know a lot of stuff.


  #8  
Old 11th April 2009, 09:24 AM
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PL, It's funny, I always felt like you were the biggest fan of the SnS Forum.

It IS a pretty cool thing, and even I admit that I've spent quite a bit of time just daydreaming about the EPIC possibilities (and unlikely ones...)
It makes for great speculation!


  #9  
Old 11th April 2009, 09:27 AM
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Yes i know that i posted many wrong (and crazy?) theories.

I very like your theory about DK64 SnS
They tested SnS via transfering ice key from BK to DK64 but they decided to not include SnS in Dk64 and save it for BT.

Last edited by BanjoPL; 11th April 2009 at 09:54 AM.


  #10  
Old 11th April 2009, 09:58 AM
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I never thought of it that way. wasn't DK64 and Tooie originally planned for N64DD?


  #11  
Old 11th April 2009, 10:00 AM
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Yes. Donkey Kong Country and Banjo-Kazooie 2 were planned for 64DD.


  #12  
Old 11th April 2009, 10:01 AM
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You mean Donkey Kong 64?
And Tooie?
(you're funny.....xD)

Never knew that DK64 was going to the DD though!


  #13  
Old 11th April 2009, 10:02 AM
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It was going to 64DD under DKC title.


  #14  
Old 11th April 2009, 10:04 AM
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I *Do* remember that at one point, Donkey Kong 64 had been delayed a couple of times...
It would make sense if it was delayed due to the problems with the 64DD, however.

Stop and Swop would have been COMPLETELY feasible if the DD had come to America, but it didn't...
Thus, we ended up with the Cold-swap idea, and here we are.


  #15  
Old 11th April 2009, 10:13 AM
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SNS wouldn't be SNS on 64DD because BK and BT on 64DD would became as one game so you collect ice key and eggs and use them in the same game without swapping.


 

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banjo kazooie, banjo tooie, dk64, ice key, stop n swop


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