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Homebrew Games and Tools If you've created a trainer, texture editor, or a full-blown fangame we'd like to see it here. Show off your mad programming skills.

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  #16  
Old 23rd January 2011, 09:29 PM
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The 3DS might be playing a few ports or remakes of N64 games, but they are optimized to run on a 3DS. Emulation is always going to be harder, as the games will not be optimized for 3DS, but rather the Nintendo 64.
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  #17  
Old 24th January 2011, 06:22 AM
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A homemade N64 emulator for Wii plays horribly. I'd like to see someone try it for the 3DS
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  #18  
Old 24th January 2011, 03:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spyke4995 View Post
The 3DS might be playing a few ports or remakes of N64 games, but they are optimized to run on a 3DS. Emulation is always going to be harder, as the games will not be optimized for 3DS, but rather the Nintendo 64.
This is the first person in here who actually has any idea how emulation works.

OOT and StarFox are running on 3DS because they were REMADE for 3DS. The entire way that the game is structured, how it uses the systems memory and resources, is based on a completely different infrastructure than what was available in the N64. The N64 was a relatively complicated machine, it was tough to develop for, and creating an emulator that can "translate" 3DS hardware into something N64 games can recognize, and utilize efficiently, would be very difficult, if it's even possible.

I mean, we saw Mario 64 on DS, is there a good n64 emulator for DS out there ? No, because it wasn't Mario 64 just slapped on a DS cart, the ENTIRE game was rewritten and redesigned to use the DS hardware.
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  #19  
Old 24th January 2011, 05:11 PM
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Originally Posted by xxjoesusxx View Post
This is the first person in here who actually has any idea how emulation works.

OOT and StarFox are running on 3DS because they were REMADE for 3DS. The entire way that the game is structured, how it uses the systems memory and resources, is based on a completely different infrastructure than what was available in the N64. The N64 was a relatively complicated machine, it was tough to develop for, and creating an emulator that can "translate" 3DS hardware into something N64 games can recognize, and utilize efficiently, would be very difficult, if it's even possible.

I mean, we saw Mario 64 on DS, is there a good n64 emulator for DS out there ? No, because it wasn't Mario 64 just slapped on a DS cart, the ENTIRE game was rewritten and redesigned to use the DS hardware.
But Super Mario 64 DS was an entire remake of SM64 for the DS, and OoT 3DS is just a rebuild for the 3DS. The difference between those two games is that one was built from the ground up, and the other was simply copied and changed a little bit to work in 3D. That being said, what's stopping people from finding a way to emulate N64 games in the same way, minus the 3D effect?
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  #20  
Old 24th January 2011, 05:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Galactic Mario View Post
But Super Mario 64 DS was an entire remake of SM64 for the DS, and OoT 3DS is just a rebuild for the 3DS. The difference between those two games is that one was built from the ground up, and the other was simply copied and changed a little bit to work in 3D. That being said, what's stopping people from finding a way to emulate N64 games in the same way, minus the 3D effect?
OOT 3DS is a remake. They're entirely rebuilding it from the ground up for 3DS.
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  #21  
Old 24th January 2011, 05:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Galactic Mario View Post
But Super Mario 64 DS was an entire remake of SM64 for the DS, and OoT 3DS is just a rebuild for the 3DS. The difference between those two games is that one was built from the ground up, and the other was simply copied and changed a little bit to work in 3D. That being said, what's stopping people from finding a way to emulate N64 games in the same way, minus the 3D effect?
No really, you don't know what your talking about, there is no difference at all. If you even remotely knew anything about developing software for specific hardware, you'd realize how stupid what you just said is.

Lets not even discuss the fact that the hardware infrastructure on the N64 is dramatically different than that of the 3DS, I've already covered that. Have you even considered the fact that N64 games are written in a completely different code language than the games on 3DS ? All of that stuff matters, it's not a simple flip-switch translation process. Just because one system is more powerful doesn't mean it can play anything flawlessly that was designed with a different system in mind. This is the exact reason why several Xbox titles play worse on ps3 even though ps3 is superior hardware-wise, because the games werent designed with the ps3s language and hardware infrastructure in mind.

Ocarina of Time 3D is a complete remake, assets of the game were reused, and it is essentially the exact same game, but it was rewritten almost completely from scratch, just like Mario 64 DS.
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  #22  
Old 24th January 2011, 07:11 PM
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Well I guess i'm just an idiot ignore me.

edit: You know what? No. NO. F**k you, I know what i'm talking about, God dammit. If assets from the original game were reused, you can't say it's "built from the ground up," because it's not. They took the game and rebuilt it to work in 3D. Super Mario 64 DS was a REMAKE of Super Mario 64. They didn't take the original game and re-tweak it to work on the DS, they made something entirely new. So if they can take the original Ocarina of Time and make it work for the 3DS, it opens up the possibility of N64 emulation. Here you are, declaring that you can't, when in all honesty NONE OF US have even HELD a 3DS yet.

edit #2: If it seems like i'm angry, i'm not. I'm just trying to prove a point here.
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  #23  
Old 24th January 2011, 07:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Galactic Mario View Post
They took the game and rebuilt it to work in 3D.
Correct-o. They rebuild it. Meaning they build it all over again. They didn't just grab the existing game, tweaked a few settings, updated a few graphics and voila. No, the entire game mechanic system had to be completely rewritten for the game to even work on a 3DS.
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  #24  
Old 24th January 2011, 07:57 PM
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"Reused assets" means they copied the graphics and music (if that), but the game would have to be remade from the ground up because, though I've never held a 3DS, I'm sure it's different from a N64.
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  #25  
Old 24th January 2011, 08:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Galactic Mario View Post
Well I guess i'm just an idiot ignore me.

edit: You know what? No. NO. F**k you, I know what i'm talking about, God dammit. If assets from the original game were reused, you can't say it's "built from the ground up," because it's not. They took the game and rebuilt it to work in 3D. Super Mario 64 DS was a REMAKE of Super Mario 64. They didn't take the original game and re-tweak it to work on the DS, they made something entirely new. So if they can take the original Ocarina of Time and make it work for the 3DS, it opens up the possibility of N64 emulation. Here you are, declaring that you can't, when in all honesty NONE OF US have even HELD a 3DS yet.

edit #2: If it seems like i'm angry, i'm not. I'm just trying to prove a point here.
Ok, we can get mean.

First off, **** you.

Second off, yes, you are an idiot, not because you don't know anything about programming and hardware infrastructure, but because when someone who DOES know tells you why you're wrong, you refuse to listen to it, and in turn become argumentative towards your fail of a point.

The Assets that are re-used to make games like Mario 64 DS and OOT 3D are things like map geometry, character models, some textures, and audio. These things are called Assets, they are not code, they are not the engine, they are not any part of the actual coding that makes the game work, they are just assets used BY the games code.

Of course they re used things like map geometry, thats how they make it still the same game, they reuse animations and character models, but, usually apply new skins and textures to these things. Most of the time bits of audio assets are reused, unless the soundtrack is redone to be of a higher quality.

As for the GAME itself, the code, the engine, the building blocks that make the game work, those are all redone. Sometimes the engine can be reused when remaking a game, but even if it is it almost has to be completely rewritten.

I'll explain this in a way that you might understand. Say you wanted to send someone grocery shopping for you. This person has no ability to think for themselves, you have to give them EXTREMELY explicit instructions, and they only understand one language, english. You send them to the grocery store with specific english instructions and they will come back with what you wanted, now send that person to a totally different store with spanish instructions, and they will never get the job done as you intended.

That's what it's like if you tried to just "copy" a game from one platform to another. Most consoles use a specific coding language, and the hardware is all designed and structured differently. Games will never work well if you just slap them into foreign hardware, especially if the hardware is vastly different. So, no, taking an n64 game and putting it on the 3DS would just not work, putting together an emulator that can manage to translate all these hardware differences for EVERY n64 game ever made is a difficult thing to do, if it's even possible to do it perfectly, considering people have a hard time with it on Wii, I can see it being an issue on the 3DS.

Like I said, compare some multi plat games from xbox to ps3.

Also, **** You Again. All I'm trying to do is explain something to you.
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  #26  
Old 24th January 2011, 09:02 PM
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You don't have to be so elitist about it though, dude. I know what you're saying and I know you're the smartest in the world and blah blah blah, but all i'm saying is you can't rule out the possibility of N64 emulation on the 3DS if we haven't even USED it yet. So are we cool, bro? Are we on the same page?
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  #27  
Old 24th January 2011, 09:35 PM
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You don't have to be so elitist about it though, dude. I know what you're saying and I know you're the smartest in the world and blah blah blah, but all i'm saying is you can't rule out the possibility of N64 emulation on the 3DS if we haven't even USED it yet. So are we cool, bro? Are we on the same page?
I wasn't being elitist, you threw insults first, and no, i'm not the smartest person in the world.

And you're right, I can't rule out the possibility of emulation, but I can rule it out for the reasons you gave, namely that just because OOT is on the 3DS doesn't mean any N64 game can be played on it by default without a LOT of reworking.

Emulation can happen, but with the specs of the 3DS, and the way it and the DS are designed, I'd say its a long shot that'll it'd be worth it, or happen anytime soon.
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  #28  
Old 26th January 2011, 12:01 AM
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But yeah, even if it turns out to be possible, it's not gonna be as great as you people imagine.
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  #29  
Old 27th January 2011, 05:38 AM
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I'm actually very glad you explained that xxJoesusxx. I never really did the research, but you explained that very thoroughly, I feel confident in explaining to people why more powerful systems cannot emulate less powerful systems, unlike previously. I had tried before, but with the way you explained it, I actually feel like I know what I'm talking about.
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  #30  
Old 27th January 2011, 12:16 PM
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I'm actually very glad you explained that xxJoesusxx. I never really did the research, but you explained that very thoroughly, I feel confident in explaining to people why more powerful systems cannot emulate less powerful systems, unlike previously. I had tried before, but with the way you explained it, I actually feel like I know what I'm talking about.
Remember though, I'm not 100% ruling it out. Some consoles are pretty close to each other, and when it comes to really old games, like 8 and 16 bit games, there really isn't any issue emulating those. But generally, emulating consoles like the N64 and later are a huge hurdle, and just because you've emulated it on pc doesn't make it possible on other platforms, it takes alot of work and it'll almost never be perfect.

Outside of that, thanks for the compliment.
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