Rare Witch Roundtable Podcast
Go Back   The Rare Witch Project Forums > Gaming > Rare & Playtonic > The Banjo Kazooie Series

The Banjo Kazooie Series General Discussion about the Banjo Kazooie series from the N64 classics to the handheld sequels & new Xbox games.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #1  
Old 27th March 2024, 07:02 PM
Rare_Gamer Rare_Gamer is offline
Glowbo
 
Join Date: Jun 2022
Stop 'N' Swop Update (Functionality/New Mystery Item/Full Plan etc.)

Hello there,

It's been a while since I've checked in, and while chatter on the mysterious Stop 'N' Swop feature has since quieted to a low whisper, I hope that you'll still enjoy this update on Rare's infamous and ambitious data transfer bonus, anyways.

I know that I'm preaching to the choir on Stop 'N' Swop remnants in Banjo-Kazooie, so I'll start with the second game intended for Stop 'N' Swop, Donkey Kong 64. I may touch on information you already know, but please bear with me, as I want to be as thorough as possible.

There are three areas in Donkey Kong 64 that were meant to be used with Stop 'N' Swop - Chunky's Room in Crystal Caves, Donkey Kong's Treehouse, and the Museum in Creepy Castle, which has its own unique item for Stop 'N' Swop to continue the process into the next game.

Donkey Kong's Treehouse and Chunky's Room in Crystal Caves facilitate the transfer of the Ice Key. Here's how that was meant to work in real-time...

It's 1999, one year after you've completed Banjo-Kazooie 100%, and now you're working your way through your newest game for the holiday, Donkey Kong 64.

After completing much of the game, you wander into the latest world, Crystal Caves and manage your way into Chunky's Room, just in front of the entrance.

Inside, you would find a large Ice Door, with a keyhole in the middle. (This area has been depicted in the German, Spanish and Japanese Strategy guide for DK64, which has leftover maps and text that weren't changed in time)

Evidence:

German Strategy Guide/English Strategy Guide comparison: https://i.imgur.com/pkfY6IQ.jpeg

Spanish Magazine Excerpt, showing area: https://i.imgur.com/jgmHQmj.jpeg

Spanish Magazine Excerpt, showing area, magnified: https://i.imgur.com/eKAxHHp.jpeg

Japanese Guide, showing area, leftover text: https://i.imgur.com/FgyMDuw.jpeg

Japanese Guide, showing area, leftover text, translated: https://i.imgur.com/eDJEvCX.jpeg

Your thoughts would have returned to Banjo-Kazooie, with the Ice Key, now presenting yourself with a logical puzzle: You have found an Ice Door, requiring an Ice Key to unlock.
You know where to find an Ice Key, but access to this item is blocked by an obstacle. If you could somehow retrieve this item, you could unlock this door.

Approaching the Ice Door and setting certain "events" into motion would cause something curious to happen - a cutscene would begin, and you would be shown the Ice Key area in Wozza's Cave. This time however, there would be nothing impeding your path to obtain the item. The cutscene would finish, bringing you back to the wall.

Behind the scenes, Donkey Kong 64 would begin writing payload data to the Nintendo 64's memory, with the value "0x10E".

Curious as to what you've just witnessed, you'd save the game, turn off the console and then remove the Donkey Kong 64 cartridge, replacing it with Banjo-Kazooie.

On startup, Banjo-Kazooie would scan the memory of the Nintendo 64, and discover the value, "0x10E", which instructs it to open the area in Wozza's Cave.

You select your file, visit Freezeezy Peak and then view the opened path to the Ice Key. Upon collecting the sought-after item, Banjo-Kazooie would begin writing payload data to the Nintendo 64's memory, with the value "0x106".

With the Ice Key collected, you'd save the game, turn off the console and then remove the Banjo-Kazooie cartridge, replacing it with Donkey Kong 64.

On startup, Donkey Kong 64 would scan the memory of the Nintendo 64, and discover the value, "0x106", which instructs it to load the Ice Key into the players inventory (this is a discovery that this site made).

You skip through the DK Rap, select your file, and then, as if through magic, you have the Ice Key available in your inventory.

Evidence:

Ice Key 1/1 remnant in inventory: https://i.imgur.com/fmp7TRg.png

With the Ice Key from Banjo-Kazooie, you would travel back to Crystal Caves to the Ice Door, prepared to use it. Stepping towards the door would cause the Ice Key to float into the air, before entering the keyhole and turning itself. The door would open, revealing an object/item heretofore unknown to us, and then another cutscene would begin...

You would watch as the Banjo-Kazooie fridge in Donkey Kong's treehouse became the cameras focus. As the camera neared, the fridge door would open slightly, piquing your interest. When you returned to Crystal Caves, your new interest would become the Banjo-Kazooie fridge in Donkey Kong's treehouse.

Evidence:

Leftover cutscene in Treehouse: https://i.imgur.com/r3uxoai.gif
Banjo-Kazooie fridge in Treehouse: https://i.imgur.com/64b8NJb.png

Our knowledge of what the Banjo-Kazooie fridge would have done, or what the item was behind the Ice Door is lost to time - you're free to speculate, but we lack sufficient evidence to be able to solve those two mysteries.

However, there still is one last remaining secret in Donkey Kong 64 that has a connection with Stop 'N' Swop, and that's the planned prize for the Museum in Creepy Castle.

Let's continue with our hypothetical - it's still 1999, you've just experienced Stop 'N' Swop for the first time, transferring the Ice Key from Banjo-Kazooie to Donkey Kong 64. You've made it a little further into the game, now venturing into Creepy Castle, when something very curious catches your eye in the Museum...

Placed on top of a pillar, you see a Golden Donkey Kong Statue behind a pane of glass.

Evidence:

German Strategy Guide/English Strategy Guide comparison: https://i.imgur.com/hzr0Dc6.jpeg
German Strategy Guide magnified: https://i.imgur.com/zW8dFp1.jpeg

Much like the Ice Key in Banjo-Kazooie, this item is also behind a pane of unbreakable glass, separating you from collecting it. Without any recourse, you would be forced to continue on, trying to put the Golden Statue out of your mind.

Like the Ice Key, you would need to wait for a future title (Banjo-Tooie, Conker: Twelve Tales, Perfect Dark etc.) to access this item, where you would then send it to another game entirely.

The Golden Donkey Kong Statue is the eighth known Stop 'N' Swop item, confirmed on the RetroHour podcast from Banjo-Kazooie engineer and inventor of Stop 'N' Swop, Paul Machacek at 1:01:03: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vc-9TOQN0ss

"The problem was DK64 was going to manufacture, and we can’t just re-jig the backgrounds and the stuff that we’d set up that was enabled for Donkey Kong 64. We just disabled the minimum amount of stuff that we needed to change in the game and take out the scanning software. So that's why there's a few places where there's like a pedestal with nothing on it - there was supposed to be something on it and you know a week before we gave the final build to Nintendo, there was something sitting on that pedestal. I don't remember what it was now…"

As you might know, Nintendo had their concerns over Stop 'N' Swop, and made a decision on October 1st, 1999, instructing its removal just a month before Donkey Kong 64 needed to be manufactured for release.

To accomplish this, the Donkey Kong 64 team removed the following features from the final game:

- Remove the Ice Door and associated space behind it from Crystal Caves.
- Remove the cutscenes that allude to Banjo-Kazooie's Ice Key
- Remove the Banjo-Kazooie fridge in Donkey Kong's treehouse.
- Remove the Golden Donkey Kong Statue from Creepy Castle's Museum.

And due to their removals, the following remnants are left in the final game:

- Ice Key text in the Inventory menu.
- Donkey Kong's Treehouse cutscene (can be accessed through the IntroStory Glitch)
- The camera focusing on the area where the Ice Door used to be when approached (Ooh, look! A wall!)
- The Pillar housing the Golden Donkey Kong Statue having nothing on it.

From here, I'd like to discuss the true, intended nature of Stop 'N' Swop, because the initial plan is more ambitious than we could ever have known...

When the Ice Key and the Mystery Eggs were first teased during the 100% cutscene in Banjo-Kazooie, we were told that we would need to wait until the release of Banjo-Tooie to collect them for ourselves. This was true, in that we could come back and "collect" the objects, but we wouldn't need to wait until Banjo-Tooie. Donkey Kong 64 had already started the process, granting us access to the Ice Key, and while we might have thought that the Pink and Blue Egg were therefore meant for Tooie, or even all 6 were meant to be given to many of Rare's other games in a linear path. This is only the first layer of the intended plan, with Paul providing the intended scope in the aforementioned RetroHour Podcast, 56:11:

"It wasn’t just “Lets do a sequel to Banjo; swop these two cartridges backward and forward and they send each other stuff...” It’s like, “Well what about Perfect Dark?” Can we do something with Perfect Dark?” Diddy Kong Racing had already shipped, so that was out of the window. So the discussion was [that] we were looking at roughly six games in different states of development at that time - so why don’t we try to connect them all? And it wouldn’t be that Banjo sends a bunch of codes to the next game that we were going to release which was DK64, and then that would send something to Conker or Tooie. It would be “Why don’t they send codes in lots of different directions?” So it’s like a Spider’s web, [or] a maze of sending code from this to that to that to that."


In the three months following Banjo-Kazooie's release on June 29th 1998, these are the following games that would have been in development at Manor Farm:

- Banjo-Tooie
- Donkey Kong 64
- Jet Force Gemini
- Conker: Twelve Tales
- Dinosaur Planet
- Perfect Dark

Jet Force Gemini might have been the first casualty from this list, as it released prior to Donkey Kong 64, which was confirmed as the second game after Banjo-Kazooie to have Stop 'N' Swop functionality. If this is the case, this would mean that the Jet Force Gemini team was not aware or informed by the Banjo-Kazooie team about Stop 'N' Swop during development, and simply released their game without being included in the plan. The Jet Force Gemini team would later work on Mickey's Speedway USA, so perhaps if Stop 'N' Swop went off without a hitch, they would have incorporated some features in that game instead, hypothetically.

Now, the starting point for all of this is Banjo-Kazooie. Stop 'N' Swop in that game is fully functional, and completion of the tasks set out in the game fills the menu and allows access to areas you wouldn't otherwise be permitted to enter. The manta for this process, echoed by the other games included in the plan is, "I get something, I give something."

Donkey Kong 64 gets the Ice Key, unlocking the Ice Door to retrieve an item (perhaps more with the fridge in the treehouse) and a secret ending. It then gives the Ice Key to the next game along the line. So what about the Golden Statue. That's where the intended plan of Stop 'N' Swop can really dig in...

Let's say that your N64 collection includes Banjo-Kazooie, Donkey Kong 64 and Banjo-Tooie. Playing through Banjo-Tooie will have you coming to a point where you can Stop 'N' Swop with Banjo-Kazooie, and you can collect the Pink Egg from Sharkfood Island to send to the sequel. (I'm inclined to lean this way, as there are portraits of the Pink Egg in Jolly Roger's Lagoon seem to suggest this)
So you do that, earn a secret bonus in Banjo-Tooie and think, "Wow, that was cool, but what about that Ice Key I saw in Banjo-Kazooie?"
Well, if you want the Ice Key to be put into Banjo-Tooie, you'll have to reach for your copy of Donkey Kong 64, as it's needed to access the item in the first place. You would then use the Ice Key to open the Ice Door in Crystal Caves, and then send that Ice Key to Banjo-Tooie where it can be put to use.

Maybe you do that, unlocking the Ice Safe in Banjo-Tooie before you're instructed to send the Ice Key to Perfect Dark. Maybe in Perfect Dark you find a way to send an item to Conker: Twelve Tales, and then that game is able to get you beyond the glass in Creepy Castle's Museum. Maybe you send that Golden Donkey Kong Trophy to Dinosaur Planet, and that allows you to access an area that tells Banjo-Kazooie to unlock the Blue Egg for Banjo-Tooie, or Conker, or Perfect Dark... Spider webs.

Maybe the endpoint of Stop 'N' Swop was a Trophy Gallery. Just a big room in one of Rare's final games that had a shelf that you put all of the golden statues acquired from all of the other games on, and filling the shelf would have unlocked something really special?

It's all speculation of course - we're attempting to forge an explanation for the 9th game when Stop 'N' Swop was truly killed off in the 2nd.

I hope you were able to get something new out of all this though, Stop 'N' Swop remains my favourite secret gaming feature, and learning of its true potential cements its place for me.

Thanks for reading, would love to hear your view.

Last edited by Rare_Gamer; 27th March 2024 at 07:17 PM.
Reply With Quote


  #2  
Old 27th March 2024, 09:32 PM
Mr. Airplane's Avatar
Mr. Airplane Mr. Airplane is offline he/they
a banana peel
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Total Awards: 6
You're Appreciated! RWP Podcast Rarity Chatterbox INFECTED - B1K1 
A great write up with a lot of citations. I really appreciate the thoroughness here.

Have you ever looked through the Stop N Swop patent? I found it fascinating https://patents.google.com/patent/US6820265B1/en
__________________

Reply With Quote


  #3  
Old 27th March 2024, 09:52 PM
Rare_Gamer Rare_Gamer is offline
Glowbo
 
Join Date: Jun 2022
Thanks, Mr. Airplane.
I sat down a few years ago and had a good, long read through the patent. The example detailed gives us the exact scenario we would have experienced in Donkey Kong 64:

"As an example, the player may come across a “Huge Blocked Icy Cave” in which there is a key-shaped hole. Unfortunately, the player can find no way or key to enter the Huge Blocked Icy Cave of the first video game. At the side of the Huge Blocked Icy Cave is a lever. The player pulls the lever and a “cut-cam” shows a section from the second video game stored on a second game cartridge. This cut-cam may reveal a door access to a “Big Icy Key.” If the player remembered playing the second video game, the player may have seen this area that could not have been accessed at that time. In this example, the trigger event occurs when the lever is pulled."
Reply With Quote


  #4  
Old 28th March 2024, 03:46 AM
qwertykins76's Avatar
qwertykins76 qwertykins76 is offline
Fired
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: japeville
Total Awards: 3
You're Appreciated! Grey Note Medal INFECTED - B2K1 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rare_Gamer View Post
You skip through the DK Rap
Beg pardon?
Reply With Quote


  #5  
Old 28th March 2024, 04:03 AM
Rare_Gamer Rare_Gamer is offline
Glowbo
 
Join Date: Jun 2022
Quote:
Originally Posted by qwertykins76 View Post
Beg pardon?
You skip through hang on every blissful note of the DK Rap, becoming enraptured until you experience a perfect hanging balance between nirvana and self-actualization.

There we go.
Reply With Quote


  #6  
Old 28th March 2024, 06:04 PM
qwertykins76's Avatar
qwertykins76 qwertykins76 is offline
Fired
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: japeville
Total Awards: 3
You're Appreciated! Grey Note Medal INFECTED - B2K1 
That's more like it.

It will never stop piquing my curiosity that all the Stop N Swop eggs are displayed in the menu in the order of the levels you collect them in, except the Cyan Egg which is randomly placed in the front, almost as if it was planned to be somewhere else or it was only included last minute.

Also the Bottles Puzzle Minigame was originally a part of Stop N Swop and nothing anyone says will change my mind.
Reply With Quote


  #7  
Old 30th March 2024, 02:08 AM
Rare_Gamer Rare_Gamer is offline
Glowbo
 
Join Date: Jun 2022
My own personal belief is that Rare based the colors of the eggs on the numbered keys of the ZX Spectrum:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/ZX_S...pectrum48k.jpg

Blue, Red, Magenta, Green, Cyan, Yellow and White for Ice Key.

On the Bottles Bonus prizes being related to Stop ‘N’ Swop, I can see your thinking with seven secret puzzles, seven secret SNS items. But Banjo-Kazooie has Stop ‘N’ Swop intact, there would be no reason to hide or replace the functionality whatsoever - the game was released with the feature raring to go. Do you have anything that really cements your position on Bottles Bonus entangled with Stop ‘N’ Swop?
Reply With Quote


  #8  
Old 30th March 2024, 03:15 AM
Mr. Airplane's Avatar
Mr. Airplane Mr. Airplane is offline he/they
a banana peel
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Total Awards: 6
You're Appreciated! RWP Podcast Rarity Chatterbox INFECTED - B1K1 
... How did I never notice that

Those aren't just the colors on those buttons, those are the only 6 colors that the spectrum can display

__________________

Reply With Quote


  #9  
Old 30th March 2024, 06:49 PM
qwertykins76's Avatar
qwertykins76 qwertykins76 is offline
Fired
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: japeville
Total Awards: 3
You're Appreciated! Grey Note Medal INFECTED - B2K1 
That's a very good theory, the sort of thing that will probably never be known for sure but totally sounds like it's true.

You don't need the ZX to explain the colors tho. RGB + CYM is just a common color selection. If they decided they wanted roughly 7 secret items, or even if they just said "hey I know, let's have a bunch of different-colored eggs" it's easy to see how maybe they started with like 2-3 of the colored eggs and then just said screw it, let's just fill one out for every major color of the rainbow... But Rare were a bunch of smarty-pants nerds, so "the rainbow" to them means RGB + CMY, not ROYGBIV which is scientifically outdated.

Also alright fine I know Bottles Bonus can't really be a SNS thing just cuz of the late date of when SNS was canceled, but I can't let go of the feeling it was tied to SNS. That perhaps they changed it down the line, for reasons that were unrelated to the SNS cancelation. A lot about it lines up perfectly

  • I consider it rather unlikely that Donkey Kong's treehouse had a fridge with Banjo and Kazooie's faces on it, a fridge we KNOW was highly involved with SNS, and that somehow the portrait of Donkey Kong in Banjo and Kazooie's house was completely unrelated to this.
  • In a different stage of development, this DK picture was moved to being above their fireplace. Unhelpfully I can't find a pic right now, but i've definitely seen it change places in different screenshots.
  • In any case, Kazooie literally calls Bottles "barrel boy" while talking to the fireplace painting, which 100% confirms as far as I'm concerned that this was originally Donkey Kong and they failed to update that dialogue.
  • The Bottles Bonus game is EXTREMELY secret, like the chances of any normal person finding out about this by chance are very close to zero. It stands to reason that originally, perhaps you would play Donkey Kong 64 and a character would tell you "go into Banjo-Kazooie and look first person at this painting". (I guess if Bottles Bonus was never a SNS thing, the original idea might also have been that a portrait of Donkey Kong is just weird and sticks out, so you'd be more likely to look at it and that's how you'd find out about it)
  • There are, suspiciously, exactly 7 Bottles Bonus cheat codes.

I suppose the ACTUAL original idea was just that "the BK fridge in DK has a secret...and the DK painting in BK has a secret too!" but it's just hard for me to accept that these weren't part of the SAME secret, especially because the Bottles Bonus minigame is a rather significant bit of content that must have taken a lot of time and effort to create.

Last edited by qwertykins76; 30th March 2024 at 06:53 PM.
Reply With Quote


  #10  
Old 13th April 2024, 10:53 PM
CaptainDredlokk CaptainDredlokk is offline
Satan
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Hell
Total Awards: 1
You're Appreciated! 
Quote:
Originally Posted by qwertykins76 View Post
But Rare were a bunch of smarty-pants nerds, so "the rainbow" to them means RGB + CMY, not ROYGBIV which is scientifically outdated.
Tangietial, but is this just in reference to RGB+CMY being the "rainbow" of computer graphics on screens and it's wooshing me, or is ROYGBIV really deprecated?
Reply With Quote


  #11  
Old 23rd April 2024, 04:55 AM
qwertykins76's Avatar
qwertykins76 qwertykins76 is offline
Fired
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: japeville
Total Awards: 3
You're Appreciated! Grey Note Medal INFECTED - B2K1 
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainDredlokk View Post
Tangietial, but is this just in reference to RGB+CMY being the "rainbow" of computer graphics on screens and it's wooshing me, or is ROYGBIV really deprecated?
I have learned quite a lot about color science over the years. (Caveman qwerty brain like look at pretty things) I'll hit you with some hard-hitting truths about color, some of which may be hard to swallow. But (like always) I am 100% correct.
  • ROYGBIV has never been a "real thing" as it were. Isaac Newton just REALLY liked the number seven. He probably died a virgin specifically BECAUSE he never figured out a way to make love to the number 7. That's how much he loved 7. ROYGBIV was always just an arbitrary selection of colors on Mr. Apple Man's part.
  • The RYB color model is complete bullshit, and it has ALWAYS been total bullshit, and we have KNOWN it is bullshit since roughly 1860. Our school systems have not bothered to update the science and to stop teaching us the highly outdated RYB model.....apparently because no one else besides me actually cares :/.

    The problem is so ubiquitous that even most high-class, professional art schools STILL teach this model out of habit. Erase it from your brain. Erase. It. RYB is a total gelding as far as color horses go. The only instances you may want to use RYB are because:
1) You're designing a color triad for some creative project, but using green just doesn't look right. Green just isn't as fun and bright as yellow is, and it's more important to you that you find a color that pops, rather than be scientifically exact.

2) You are painting, and your image includes human skin tones in it. R + Y gives you a higher gamut to work with for fleshy colors than R + G would. However, please do NOT think I am saying RYB is an ideal model for painting WHATSOEVER. I'm just admitting it's slightly better for beiges and browns than RGB would be.

But really, if you want those specific colors, you ought to be using a totally different palette altogether. if you're an artist, you shouldn't stick to one color triad at all. You SHOULD just come up with a palette to use that your painting will need, on the fly. CYM is the most ideal model to use for paints, but only in a vacuum. That's a kind of truth that changes with context.
  • People will say purple and magenta aren't "real" colors, but you shouldn't pay this much heed. This is a semi-truth. You see the problem is, magenta is just as real as every other color......which is to say, not at all. Color is not real, it is a built-in hallucination manufactured by our brain and visual systems in order to help us tell objects apart and not get eaten by a tiger.

    Wavelengths of light are "real". And the absorption of light is "real". But those are actual PHYSICAL things we can detect and measure. Colors are not that, colors are our ****ed-up scrambling and reinterpretation of imperfect raw data our eyes detect. This raw data exists outside of our skulls, but the concept of color does not. ALL colors are completely fake and imaginary....at least as far as we know---debates about qualia give me a migraine.

    Anyway when people say magenta isn't "real" they just mean magenta has no single wavelength of light it corresponds to in the physical world.... which has no barring on whether a color is real or not, because no color is real. If you experience it in your skull, then it's a valid color. That's all color is, it's ultimately a subjective thing.

    If you're still unsure, think of it this way: When you look at a yellow lemon, it MAY be reflecting pure yellow light. However, it may also be reflecting NO yellow light whatsoever, it may only appear yellow because it reflects equal amounts of red and green. And yet, both lemons appear the same. As a matter of fact, it's actually way MORE likely that you aren't looking at pure yellow when you see a lemon, because MOST objects you see in day-to-day life are not a single wavelength of light, they are typically a blended average of several colors reflecting together. So let me ask you: is the second, red + green lemon, which reflects no yellow light at all, somehow a more "real" color than the color magenta, which can only be seen from red + blue?.....Magenta is no less real.
  • In summary, ROYGBIV is CRINGE, RYB is CRINGE, RGB and CYM are scientific and BASED. (Although imo CYM isn't actually any fundamentally different. CYM is still just the RGB model, it's just using the opposite colors because paints work inversely to how raw light works.) H O W E V E R , let me hit you with one last curve ball. There is one more, scientifically valid color model: RYGB.

    As we discussed, color only really exists as a concept in the brain. Well it turns out while our EYES see in terms of RGB, that's not the final data that reaches our brains. Our visual systems have filters in-between point A and point B. The first filter compares and contrasts how Blue VS Yellow an image looks. And the second filter judges how Red VS Green an image looks. THIS is the data that actually reaches our brains. This is why humans appear to view red and green as "opposite" colors, when scientifically speaking they are not. The RYGB model is called the "psychological primary" model, and it's perfectly valid system to use....so long as you're not mistakenly using it to inform your paint mixtures or measurements of light out in the physical world.

Hmm... I'm sorry, weren't we talking about Banjo-Kazooie or something?
Reply With Quote


  #12  
Old 25th April 2024, 05:52 PM
Yoshi52's Avatar
Yoshi52 Yoshi52 is offline he / him
Dingpot
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Infinite void with blue background
Total Awards: 2
INFECTED - B1K1 RWP Bash Day 5 Participation Award 
This is so interesting, I'm just gonna listen.
__________________
"I have a whole box of mudkips in my garage and I have been doing rude things with them."
- Cleverbot
(That was my old signature? Yiiiikes!)
Reply With Quote


Reply


User Tag List

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT. The time now is 09:58 AM.


Forums powered by vBulletin® Copyright © Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Website © 2000-∞ The RWP