The final Analysis!

[SubDrag]

You have no access to D-cache or I-cache as a programmer. It is different every time you run a program with different inputs, so every time. It also is probably very small on the N64, not that it would matter. That's really bizarre missing memory 20. I wonder what it is. You sure it's not in the images? It could just be generic. I do not believe it was going to be using DD, because the DD was not around in the US, nor do I think it would've at the time of the games release, or with enough time for them to develop for.

Can someone link me to the patent with images? The US patent site images don't work.

Either way, I think it's clear that, according to the patent, game one puts flag on Memory 20, game two checks for it, and does things if it reads it. Game two places another flag, swaps game two for one, and game one reads it. Which all makes sense logically, although it hasn't been necessarily clearly defined. If I were to implement Stop N Swop, that's how I would do it. Although it means game one of course has to be completely finished and implemented and ready for the system. My best guess is it is what slaphappy? was it, who posted about how RAMBUS killed Stop N Swop, and the Rare guy who posted said more or less his theory was correct. Still, I can't imagine how the patent is missing a reference to memory 20. Although I thought I read somewhere that code was going to be placed into memory so game one could use it. Which is very possible also, putting it in "Memory 20", and executing from it. Though it'd be pretty tricky. Especially if through some sort of memory degredation, and a few bits were off. Tracing the beginning of Banjo's bootup would be insanely hard, there's just so much stuff happening that you don't know, and you don't know what you're looking for. Maybe if we could narrow it down to a probably location or confirm it's the normal memory. BK didn't use the 8 meg pak right? Was it even out when BK was released?

One thing I find odd is that Memory 20 is clearly not equal to Memory 16.

"While the preferred embodiment of the invention has been illustrated and described, it will be appreciated that various changes can be made therein without departing from the spirit and scope of the invention. "

To be fair, Rare is patenting this "invention" (frankly it's an obvious solution to me, patents can be ridiculous), so they made it a little generic, but in the end, basically the ice key wall + lever is the important thing to take from this, in game 2. Presumably Donkey Kong 64 at that time (1999), at least for testing. It'd be nice to find it in DK, maybe by the list of models (may not be referenced in object modifier) that cooliscool is working on. There were some unlisted ones in BK remember.

[StevethemasterX]

those images are in the adobe reader document you can download

[gdsmzroll]

I knew it, both methods were planned to be utilized. So does that mean all 3 games were to utilize hot swap?

[Grabythejiggies]

Congratulations hardworking hackers, you've unlocked the method to the madness of Rare's biggest secret.
But, can anyone tell me what is inside those wonderful colorful spinning eggs, hmm?

[Glaber]

I'm guessing what was inside was what we got from them so far in Tooie.

[Grabythejiggies]

Sure you were able to get Homing Eggs, Breegull Bash, a Jinjo as a multiplayer character (For some reason), and Dragon Kazooie.
Items used:

Ice Key
Blue Egg
Pink Egg
Yellow Egg

What happened to the Cyan Egg and the Red Egg?

[AlmostJinkies]

How could the items in the eggs be the BT items if we were supposed to swap them with DK64?

Wouldn't be much use for Dragon Kazooie now would there?

[Glaber]

Originally Posted by Grabythejiggies

What happened to the Cyan Egg and the Red Egg?

Cyan? Maby the original plan was for what the Ice key gives you now. Red, Probably Bottles's Revenge.

[AndyNPC]

On the Sega Master System something like SnS could be done with ease. Take almost any game and swop with another, hit reset and all kinds of cool things happen! What if that can happen with the N64? Take a game, tear it out, put in another, hit reset. Would anything happen? What if it was done while saving? Theres an idea to test! Can this happen now, but with other games? I intend to find out, as soon as I can get the reset button unstuck.

[ssj]

Oh i forgot to say.......

Great Job rune!!!!!!!!

[runehero123]

Originally Posted by Subdrag

One thing I find odd is that Memory 20 is clearly not equal to Memory 16.

"While the preferred embodiment of the invention has been illustrated and described, it will be appreciated that various changes can be made therein without departing from the spirit and scope of the invention. "

To be fair, Rare is patenting this "invention" (frankly it's an obvious solution to me, patents can be ridiculous), so they made it a little generic, but in the end, basically the ice key wall + lever is the important thing to take from this, in game 2. Presumably Donkey Kong 64 at that time (1999), at least for testing. It'd be nice to find it in DK, maybe by the list of models (may not be referenced in object modifier) that cooliscool is working on. There were some unlisted ones in BK remember.

Ok, thanks for clearing up the d-cache/i-cache thingy. I probably should have contacted you on that before. Me and mike checked the pic's in the patent already, memory 20 is nowhere to be found.

BTW subdrag, check gamingmaster2k's patent analysis thread, he posted a link to the patent that contained the pic's.

But Rare does mention this:

Originally Posted by PAtent

Those of ordinary skill in the art will appreciate that the data sharing system 10 includes many more components than those shown in FIG. 1.

But it's still odd they wouldn't reference memory 20...

Originally Posted by Subdrag

BK didn't use the 8 meg pak right? Was it even out when BK was released?

No, it was released alongside Donkey Kong 64, and the 64DD was going to require it to run as well.

Originally Posted by Subdrag

Presumably Donkey Kong 64 at that time (1999), at least for testing. It'd be nice to find it in DK, maybe by the list of models (may not be referenced in object modifier) that cooliscool is working on.

Yah, I'm hoping it will show up in CoolisCool's program as well.

[Crocadillian]

Great stuff guys! I have been looking up this ever since my bro got a N64 off Ebay and id love to help if only i knew a line of code ^^

Keep up the good work and i will look forward to you dudes eventually cracking the SnS wide open

[BanjoLink]

You guys have cracked it, but can you blow it wide open? Could this lead us to what the eggs contained, the RSA, the everything?

[AndyNPC]

Originally Posted by BanjoLink

You guys have cracked it, but can you blow it wide open? Could this lead us to what the eggs contained, the RSA, the everything?

No. But it is a good bit of triva don't you think? In all seriousness, doesn't this mean that SNS should have worked? According to the patent, everything should of gone all fine and dandy. But what about Nintendo? Was the hot swoping idea really too risky? Was it the kind of thing that sends shivers down customer cares backs? Think of what the Genisis (sp?) had done to it. Memory from games effecting another with no control from Sega. Sometimes destroying your whole system if attempted at a bad time. Was that what Nintendo feared? If someone were to put the wrong game in, who knows what could of happened?

Theres my 2¢. Who knows, that could be what went down.

[runehero123]

The rare patent has 3 patents referenced that refer to hot-swapping.

-Circuit module with hot-swap control circuitry- filed 1994-01-13
http://www.patentstorm.us/patents/5530302.html

-Local proactive hot swap request/acknowledge system- filed 1994-07-07
http://www.patentstorm.us/patents/5579491.html

-Local proactive hot swap request/acknowledge system- filed 1996-08-16
http://www.patentstorm.us/patents/5664119.html

[Edit] I have also located the 64DD patent. And I have something to bring up:
http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-P...S=PN/6,769,989

Earlier the 64DD patent mentions memory 300 as RDRAM (specifically Rambus)

Main memory 300 stores the video game program in the form of CPU instructions 108. All accesses to main memory 300 are through coprocessor 200 over path 106.

Sub, do you know if there is any memory located in the coprocessor (RCP) that the programmers may have access too. I know about d-mem and i-mem, do you think they would work for holding a flag?

The memory 300 is coupled to coprocessor 200 via a unified nine bit wide bus 106, the control of which is arbitrated by coprocessor 200.

Remember, that Rare's patent mentions a memory coupled to a processor. That would be the co-processor. SO...

Ram 181 appears in the patent although I don't think it's the memory 20.

The control and interface logic 178 receives a DMA request with appropriate addresses and transfers data between the video game console and expansion device 95 in response to read or write clock signals. Data is typically obtained by control and interface logic 178 from RAM 181, boot ROM 182, mass storage device 174 and transferred to the video game console main memory RD RAM 300 (FIG. 2).

Here is a better description of what it was used for.

Control and interface logic 178 is also coupled to RAM 181. RAM 181 provides buffer space for incoming modem data and disk sectors, for example, from mass storage device 174 during read/write operations